AI still needs improvement

first of all this AI is ok and fun to play sometimes but still not at the level of barbarian AI on voobly. the most annoying thing is that they always tend to use my resources even if they have plenty of resources in their bases. for example most of games i’ve played in arena AI try to build the 2nd or 3th lumber camp right next to my walls thats gives me so many free vil kills and that kills the competition.sometimes i try to ignore their mistakes but they keep doing it over and over also in open maps our beloved AI comes and builds mining camp to my gold right under my TC how dare they!!
it shouldnt be so hard to fix these little but also important mistakes imo.

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Yeah, the AI can be really stupid sometimes.

Here we also discus how will the AI behaved. Have a look at that thread as well.

I have no knowledge of building an AI, so i dont really know how hard this would be to fix.

To me extreme AI is not higher than 1200 elo for now

Do you really think it is that high?! At this moment i would say it is around 1000, maybe 1050. My rating is around 1100 and i have no real issues with beating the extreme AI.

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TheMax> dev team
totally agreed even extreme AI is weak

Yes i think so i just dont want to be so harsh on them :smile:

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Yes, i dont know why they didnt put Barbarian as base AI or some lookalike.
Compared to the original AI, the AI is great. Compared to the current multiplayers standards, the current AI is just and average player. Compare this to Barbarian and you just have a great AI.

Hello everyone :slight_smile:

We’re still working on the AI and improving it based on community feedback and our own investigations. The camp placement specifically is a bit tricky because aoe2 has so many different possible map generations, but it’s still possible to improve this behavior.

Thank you for your feedback, we will continue monitoring feedback in the forums and anywhere we can find it even if we don’t always reply. It’s greatly appreciated!
-Promiskuitiv

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Oh, hey Promi!

Thanks for the response.

Just a side note, DE AI doesn’t wall AFAIK even on extreme.

Can you address this one?

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Hi Promi,

here some suggestions to make the AI substantially better especially late feudal/early castle age:

Placing a simple tower in the line between the AI and me in feudal age means that the AI will let their skirms/archers/pikemen suicide pretty much all army into that tower when they could easily walk around and attack the villagers in the wood line/at gold and make it alot harder for me. Putting a few archers into the tower to increase its attack makes it even worse for the AI. I don’t even have to use units to destroy the enemy army which makes things too easy. No player would suicide their army that way. It would even be better if archers would just walk under the tower to abuse the minimum range.

One of the biggest improvements to the AI would be that it stops to attack the first building it sees and priorizes avoiding towers (like it was said in the patch notes but they don’t do that) and going into the eco. Sometimes the AI came forward while I was still walling up and they just attacked a building instead of walking a bit further where there wasn’t even a wall. They could have easily raided my eco

If you look at vipers 1v4 vs Extreme AI on youtube you can clearly see that behavior - he wins minutes where the AI just attacks houses with archers when they could actually really hurt his eco. You should watch these videos as a source of ideas on how to improve the AI in case you didn’t already.

Also if you are totally walled especially with pallisade walls they should try to create a hole in the wall and then use that hole instead of attacking useless stuff. Only if that doesn’t work as a last resort they should waste their time attacking houses or other buildings and other stuff.
Also they shouldnt try to break a pallisade wall with a tower behind if there is another pallisade wall without a tower behind not far away.

The top prioritiy for the AI especially in the early game until at least early castle age should be killing villagers. All other offensive military goals have to be secondary goals for their rush.

With these changes the AI would instantly be so much stronger and harder to deal with.

Here some additional ideas to improve the AI:
Another thing that would make the AI stronger is attacking from more than one (always the same) direction. If it fails to attack from one direction where you as a player build all your defense because you know the AI will attack there 99% of the time it would be really cool if the AI would try to attack from another side/area.
It could even use some petards to instantly break some walls and then get into the base and raid. Or if you want to make us sweat how about a push with their army combined with enough petards to instantly blow up a castle. The petards should of course not run at the front so that they don’t get instantly get blown up. Maybe the petard castle destruction could be an extra taunt - it would be insanely annoying to deal with - maybe let it happen in only 15% of the games :slight_smile: but petard wall breaking seems like a legit strategy for the AI.

Then the castle placement: I often see the AI build Castles behind their base at the border of the map. I think there is not a single reason why a castle should stand right next to the border of the map in the opposing direction of where the enemy player is. If it was meant as a defensive castle they should at least place it in the middle of their base.

Here some things I really lke about the extreme AI:
Their eco seems pretty good. Castle age times have also become much better. I also like their early militia/m@a harassement. Also the scout trying to kill weak vills is a cool thing.

A really strong behavior in late game is their push on a castle. The AI will wait until it has quite an army and then push forward with units to make it hard for us players to go for their siege. They also retreat early enough so that they are not defenseless after a push.

There is an AI mod for AoE II DE - the Pharaon_DE AI. It does some nice things like tower rush your gold and when you let it play against the DE AI it seems that it raids far better, manages to run past towers and avoids buildings. Until Hard difficulty it doesn’t cheat but it does cheat a bit on hardest and extreme so there was no fair way to compare it against the Extreme AI.
I would love be able to set different difficulty settings for each AI. Without cheats The Paraon_DE AI has far slower castle age time than the extreme AI and it goes much heavier on feudal aggression. It beats the DE AI on the difficulties where I tested it - but it wasn’t a fair test because I wasn’t able to test Hard Pharaon_DE vs Extreme DE AI.
If you find the time you could do some tests and compare it to the DE AI to see some of these implementations.
I didn’t do enough games against it to be sure but it seems it has implemented some of the suggestions from above - in one of my games it seemed to me that it was even avoiding a tower and went attacking another wall segment to break in.
Here a Link to the mod:
https://www.ageofempires.com/mods/details/4193

I also want to thank you and your team for all the monthly updates - it’s really nice to see so much work going into this game.

Oh and the melee pathing problem - I was doing some tests and maybe these ideas help with finding a solution:

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Great to hear something for the devs! I do appreciate it!

If i need to give you some feedback on the current AI:

  • Strategy choiche are off. Example: Why would you go for a 26 pop feudal age on Arabia without any defenses? If he want for a naked FC, let it wall for example.
  • Lumbercamp places are kinda bad. The AI loves to place the lumbercamps at the other side of the forest. No straight path back to the TC if it is getting rushed. So all the vills have to walk the long way around the forest.
  • It is really prone to towers. It will sends all vills to destroy the tower, but if you figth back with around 4 forward vills, all villagers retreat. This continued for every. Building two towers in range and the AI seems to throw away all it vills.
  • The AI seems also prone to early aggression. If you can hit them with something around the time they hit feudal age, you just won the game. It responds to early aggression is just bad. It idles his full eco and dont really seems to make military at all.
  • AI seems to sometimes send 2 vills out for a boar lure. This is just idle time for the AI.
  • AI sends some vill to boar, but if the boar just moves a square, he sends the vill back to the TC and sends a new vill to the boar. This is just idle time for the AI.
  • AI takes all sheeps at once under the TC. A human will try to eat 1 sheep at the time.

Please give a shout if you need more info about one of the above points! Hopefully we can help with this insight to make the AI even better!

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Hey Promi,
I recently downloaded the Apocryphia AI pack and was a little overwhelmed by the sheer volume of AI’s included in it. I’m familiar with the known ones(eg. Barbarian, Promi, Pharoan), however I’m finding it a little daunting to test around 33 new AI’s to observe their strategy and skill level. Has anyone attempted to make a compilation giving a brief summary/rating of custom modded AI’s before?

Thank you very much for your continued feedback everyone, we’re taking it into consideration. :slight_smile:

@TitledBag319598
The person who uploaded that (as well as most other currently uploaded AI packs) did not ask the authors of the included AIs for permission. Ex: The author of Barbarian has not yet prepared his AI for DE and has not authorized reuploads of it.
To your question: I have an unofficial link to an AI scripting community member’s AI rankings (resulting from AI vs AI matches), click at your own risk: Unofficial AI rankings .

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AI does indeed still need improvement. For example, their ability to sink ships with melee units should be enabled because the AI melee armies who run away from ships that are so close to them near land look like cowards.

Hi all, sorry if I’m reviving old thread but I don’t feel like wanna create a new one with similar topic, on AI.

I spend most of my playtime playing mostly against AI paired with my father 3v3 or 4v4 on lobby.

I want to inform that AI likes to stream their units one by one instead of sending in with groups of army whenever they’re attacking,

worse when they’re retargeting another ally when one of my allies resigns,

as in they attack with units sending to a target one unit by one unit, which is so bad to be easily destroyed,

and again worse when they’re pulling back every units when seeing a few unit counters than to crush them.

Another thing I notice esp in 4v4 would be the AIs will stop attacking fiercely like at the start they’ll fully focus fire 4AI against one player, and then another my ally at the other end, once two or three of my allies are gone (remaining myself vs the 4 AIs) they will somehow be gentle to me by only sending a handful of army from time to time one AI at a time,

which is bad compared to their initial fierce attacks.

I’m comparing their first boom attack after imp at 30 minutes vs after 1-2 hours of gametime they somehow idling and waiting for you to attack. But I won the game by building a wonder and they didn’t really attack. 11