There is a lot of discussion goin on about the keshik.
Here is just a quick overall comparison of all the cavalry units available for Mongols (Didn’t include the Khan and scout as they aren’t really relevant)
After some play, I’ve noticed that Keshik’s arent really worth the investment. Horsemen are just overall better due to cost-effectiveness.
Late game Keshiks are however good for Raiding, as their damage against buildings also heals them, making them ideal to siege down towers econ around TC’s with their castle-age upgrade.
Somehow the Keshik change made the Khaganate Palace now more “viable”. Giving Mongols Rus Knights for the Imp-game. in combination with Keshiks actually quite good.
However, the Khaganate palace is a lottery Meme, so getting Knights consistently is not to be accounted for. (I had Nest of Bees 10 times a row for this test, would be nice to have this happen in an actual game!)
Interesting facts: Mongol Imp-upgrades also effects Rus units.
Rus knights already starts with Boyar’s Fortitude, but does however not have the Poleaxe upgrade, and thus does not have the +2 Damage.
Neither does the Horse Archers have their new ability unlocked.
Also do not mix Mangudais into your cavalry armies as they are the slowest cavalry in the game and will slow down your army. Have them in a seperate group if you are to use them at all. Rus Horse-Archers will do a better job if you have them available, so use them instead.
Yes the keshik are underwhelming I think. Heal is good but with that low life it feels like it doesn’t matter in fights. Maybe a good thing could be if the keshiks torches with their normal attack speed. This could be pretty good for burning buildings and get bounty. So they would be a good raiding unit. What triggers me most is that keshiks were the guards of the khan, so they should be a strong unit. But at the moment they are just worse knights. I don’t say they are weak. In feudal I like them but still with their imp upgrade they die so fast. For me they are OK in feudal, maybe a bit more life but they should be stronger in castle and imp.
Yep, now the Mongols have the two worst units in the game.
Mangudai and Keshig are the worst units in the game.
Mangudai will slow down cavalry army, doesn’t deal any dmg, too expensive.
Keshig, low damage, HP, expensive, worst heavy cavalry, all counters are now 2x times more effective due to low hp…
In all honesty, I do not think theres anything inherently wrong with the Keshiks. I think they are as fine as they are.
What is needed though is a change to the Mangudai Cost. (Have them cost Food + Wood, same as Rus Horse archer).
That would make them worthy their cost comparatively to thier performance, and synergise better with Feudal-keshiks, as you won’t have the crazy gold drain that hampers age up.
Secondly, they should also change up the Khaganate Palace, make it so that you can Choose which units to produce rather than it being a meme-lottery.
If they do this, Keshiks becomes actually pretty good without any direct changes to it.
Because You have Mangudai’s that can compliment them against spears and crossbow, making them less vournarable in a front-line fight, and do better in skirmishing and raids.
and then in the late game, Mongols would still have access to Heavier knights in form of Rus-Knights if they choose to go for the Khaganate palace.
Making the Khaganate Palace actually very viable for the late game.
Keshigs arent pop efficient in the late game and the Mongols lost their tanky lancers.
In imperial age no one trains mangudai. They are also not pop-efficient. Instead, crossbows and hand cannoneers are better.
As yo can see, the Mongols now have the two worst units in the game.
Only usable in feudal.
Mangudai is only good against traders. No one really sends spears alone.
Therefore, Mangudai and Keshigs are now useless.
The Mongols are extremely weak in Castle and Imperial now.
They both need buffs.
I agree Khaganate Palace can be like Ottoman’s military school, after all it is a Imp. landmark, and it waits for unit pruduction, deserve a certain kind of slection by player.
I also agree with you bro. Now there is a concern for Mongol, what is Mongol’s composition in Castle Age? Are all Mongol players still play hit-and-run strategy in Castle Age?
Does this Keshik, replacing tanky Lancer, exists to make Mongol player less choices?
Or maybe Dev. should provide an option, an “upgrade tech” in Castle Age to increase cavalry or Keshik’s hp points.
I think they should change it to one of these two options:
It’s still random, but it will not make a second set of a certain unit type until all unit types have been made once, and so on. This how Tetris works. There are 7 pieces and you don’t know the order, but you know you’ll get one of each.
Even better, it’s not random at all, it produces the unit types in a set sequence that is always the same.
I would love 0 randomness. I just don’t see them letting it be where you pick exactly which things you want whenever. Maybe they don’t want it to be too similiar to the Wynguard, or for half the options in it to never be used, or for it to be easy to get a dozen Hui Hui Pao.
If they INSIST on randomness, at least option 1 is predictable and can be played around and planned for.
Perhaps in battles where there are high damage opposing units they are worse than a knight in resource ratio, but for raiding, siege and in longer battles or against low damage units they do very well.
1000+ Mongol games 50 on the PUP and I can say without a doubt the Keshik is a trash unit. I really like the Idea but they are good at nothing everything but horsemen and archers counter them and you cant catch horsemen soooo. HP is far to low Cost is way to high Its simply a Nerf. Lancers are a far better unit. A fix would be either replacing horsemen with Keshik adjust some stats and cost or give feudal Lancers. As it stands Mongols has to be once again the weakest civ. English got Map hack and Mongol got nerfed…
You know attack speed arrow only counts for range attacks right?
Feudal, only movement speed arrow is available and viable for them.
Kurultai dosn’t hit before castle age, also buffs every unit regardless what they are.
Still, I have no issue with how the Keshiks are at their current state.
I think they are fine as they are and don’t need any changes.
But Mongol as a whole needs an adjustment, as I’ve mentioned earlier.
Making the Mangudai more viable via either changing their cost or performance.
And making the Khaganate Palace more viable through removing the RNG from it.
This in itself indirectly “buff” the Keshiks without a single change to the Keshik unit itself.
because now you can support them with Mangudai for raids throughout all stages of the game.
And for the very late game when Keshiks front-line performance falls short, You still have access to traditional Lancers in form of RUS Knights, IF you were to choose the Khaganate palace.
Making it actually contendable for a Imperial Landmark compared to the White Stupa which is just much more stronger than the Khaganate palace is at its current state, due to Stone income, and being the perfect pasture booster for late game.
I recognize that Mongolian would have worse heavy cavalry than the rest (except Mali), for this reason I proposed that their bonuses adapt it to pass it on to castles
but the improved technology must remain in imperial
