I think that’s an intended mechanic, allowing you to take over the Farms of allies (as well as enemies). Likely intended for purposes by the original devs to give you some free farms from a destroyed ally or enemy.
I know what you mean, but have you watched the video? Through slinging of farms in the early game you can consistently pull off a sub 12 minute castle age time with Khmer and be able to immediately spam Knights with Bloodlines. Another thing is: Why can you not use the farms of allies when they just placed them (before the construction is started)? It seems to me like they don’t want farm slinging to be a thing, but trying to fix it in the early game prevents their intended use later in the game for exactly what you mentioned.
@LinieSpreu12610 then what do you think of the BO I posted? You can’t tell me that you think an 11:30 castle age time with Bloodlines and Knight production is balanced OR intended…
I think it’s an interesting finding, but I doubt it’s OP. The slinger can only sling you farms basically, which should be enough of a limitation. It only enables to send wood, and takes a few minutes to pay back. Also the lack of wood may be problematic for the slinger to wall himself.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this feature was there in the original game as well. So this strategy would have been unknown for 20 years ?
What about taking one your ally’s boars, wouldn’t that achieve the same thing as what you’re doing with farms ? If you pick Mongols or Lithuanians and take both boars I think you can achieve ridiculous castle times as well.
True, the slinger will be a bit behind (villager idle time of walking to his ally and back, as well as 252 Wood for the 7 farms). The Khmer player might have to send some Knights to defend his slinger.
I think so. I made a reddit post about this as well and people said it has been known for quite some time, but with more recent buffs to Khmer and my build order it makes it seem quite insane.
Not even close. For reference, take this video from T90: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fML7KHgJdtg
MbL needed 6 boars to click up and arrived in Castle at minute 11:33, which is about what is achieveable with my build if executed perfectly. However a) getting that many boars is nearly impossible, whereas my build can be pulled of consistently on any map with standard resources (8 sheep, 2 boars, 3-4 deer), and b) that was back when Mongols had 50% hunt bonus IIRC, which was reduced to 40% because it was too broken. So I HIGHLY doubt that…
I think I saw Tatoh “slinging” farms to his mates some time ago but only because he was Teuton. Since noone uses it no reason to fix and doesnt seem to be an issue.
Its very questionable because one player will be stuck in dark age forever not having any eco upgrades, just throwing some facts in here what you could do with it without proving thats its a game changer and viable in a real game doesnt seem usefull to me.
So to answer your question: I dont think any positive about your BO assumption because its just a theoretical thing that will most likely fail in any games where your opponents put agression before you can pump knights. Even if you have a teuton player slinging farms to Khmer it most likely fails and discussing if its balanced is completely useless since this topic is just full of theoretical assumptions that arent any realistic.
That’s just plain wrong as you should have seen in the ranked game in the video that I linked in my original post. Have you even watched the video? The slinger invests 252 wood and some villager idle time of running to the Khmer players TC and back. While that does set him back a little bit, he isn’t going to be “stuck in dark age forever”. In fact in the very game that I linked my ally was in castle age at minute 17:30 even with slinging and being MAA rushed.
And how exactly do you want to pressure the Khmer player? The only thing that would destroy this BO is pressure BEFORE the Khmer player clicked up to Castle, which would mean before minute 8:50. By that point, you won’t even have scouts out with the 19 pop Mongol scout rush. A drush will come in earlier, but you would have to sit and camp the gold or arrive perfectly while the Khmer player is just sending vills on gold and has not yet walled them in. Again remember: He only needs 3 on gold to click up, so your timing window to hit that is just 1 minute and 15 seconds. And besides the gold, you can’t attack anything else because the BO skips berries and lumber camps, everything but the gold is under the TC. The only real risk that would destroy this strategy is laming and intercepting the villager that is being sent to sling the farms, but for the interception you would need at least 2 scouts because otherwise the slingers vill and scout will beat your scout.
Also,
is a pretty bad argument. Just because noone knows about this doesn’t mean it can’t be broken. The AoE community isn’t that big and people are not hunting daily for new bugs/exploits/strats. It’s not unlikely that something like this went under the radar…
Yes I watched the video. Your dark age looks solid and I like the build up / preemptive walls of your gold to support the strategy. I would suggest you no bloodlines and invest into +1 instead, its way more important.
But, any player on a similar level would easily have 6 archers and 2 spears out when your first knight is built which deal significant damage to your knights without any upgrades. At your stage of the game you couldnt even afford +1, I m not sure if you know how bad knights without +1 are even vs feudal archers.
Lets assume you did +1 and archers are less effective, your biggest fear is if the opponent just adds some spears. Now he easily kills all of your knights while your mate is heavily behind and most likely dieing and your whole strategy is based on killing your guy fast.
Feudal spears are super dangerous to FC knights because your eco is extremely tight and its hard to engage which you have to because your whole strat is about killing fast and your mate has to be dieing any time soon.
Some spears with some archer micro is enough to stop all this, it just doesnt work vs a similar strong opponent. Same is if your opponent went scouts, he just masses enough spears to buy time.
Hmm, I thought my dark age was pretty bad. Can be improved by about a minute if I had found the 2 sheep, wasn’t housed and had less idle time under my TC (honestly it’s hard to watch just how often I misclicked)
I agree that my opponent should have had more units out than 2 archers. But even with 6 archers and 2 spears your on the ticking clock, because as soon as I am castle I can make 1 Knight for every 2 archers you make. Since 1 Knight can easily fight 2 Archers, at some point I can just take the fight. Otherwise you’ll have to make a ton of spears and with 22 sec creation time each spearman you’ll need another barracks to produce enough against the Knights. If I don’t commit to a bad fight I will have 1) time and 2) mobility on my side. You can attack my base with your military advantage, but unless you can do immediate damage I can either Tower up or, if the attack is too late, place TCs and your Feudal army will be in vain.
The problem with the armor upgrades is that you’ll need a blacksmith, for which you’ll need wood. If I was to adjust eco to that I could probably do that, but probably not before actually hitting castle age and getting out a few Knights. Bloodlines can be researched on the way to castle, which is convenient. The difference between +1 and no +1 is the archers need 50 instead of 40 attacks to kill 1 Knight, which is a lot better, but the Knights also die in 7 hits to spearman as opposed to 8 hits with Bloodlines. Optimally, if you do commit to Feudal army and I see that I can’t fight your army, I can’t help my teammate and also can’t raid either opponent (which I doubt since your armies need to be stacked and are not mobile at all), it would be the best case for you. I can see the strat failing to this but it would still be an uphill battle for the Feudal player (I never said this was a 100% win rate strat, just that it is super strong and kinda broken).
Not necessarily. Early damage would be nice but delaying a fight until I get +1 or even +2 is also an option.
Bold of you to claim “it just doesn’t work” if you have neither tested nor tried this in a real game.
The thing about massing spears is with scouts you have basically no eco damage potential and with archers it’s too expensive. You can’t produce archers from two ranges and spears from two barracks. Producing from two ranges and one barracks even is pretty difficult in early Feudal, as that’s 500 resources per minute that you need to spend on military, add to that the 6 vills you need to keep the TC up and running and you’ll need at least 30 vills with perfect eco balance for this. So producing this much this early on is also difficult.
I’d suggest you try this strat just to see how it works out for you.
Ah, yeah you right +1 is definiately not viable in this tight build order.
I can personally tell I m not willed to test this BO, the point is that you can also play vs an easy Computer and then open a topic that War Elefants are too strong. I know I m exaggerating now, but the opponents your are playing vs are just too bad in either punishing your “slinger” and in countering your 1 stable knights with no def ups.
I can just tell from my experience and game feeling that this wont work vs evenly skilled opponents because 1 stable knights without def ups just horribly die against archers and some spears.
ISSUE EXPERIENCED