bonuses of 150% does not seem healthy in the game, comparing that another civilization with all mining technologies does not exceed 50 gold per minute each villager, the Mongol alone with the steppe collects 60 gold per minute each villager, and with bonuses tech can reach almost 75 gold per minute. I have proposed that they reduce the cost of the outpost in the age of castles since in principle the towers were cheap because they did not have walls, focus on that and nerf the steppe, its bonus is out of the ordinary
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Resource Per Minute rates in-game are calculated on a 1-minute memory. This means they fluctuate wildly depending on the exact second a worker deposits their resource and are thus not a true representation of Resource Per Minute. As I mentioned in another thread, a data set using 1 worker can lead to some pretty screwy conclusions.
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Fundamentally this comparison confuses Equality with Equity. If youâre asking for equality, then all Civs need the exact same mechanics and differ only aesthetically. If youâre asking for Equity, you canât hyper focus on gold income and ignore what gold âmeansâ to each respective civ. Otherwise, a Mongol player could take screenshots of stone gather rates and show that every other civ can easily drown Mongols in stone production.
Mongols are unique Civ. The closest comparison is likely Rus. Mongols inability to build Walls and Keeps, means that a Mongolâs Army serves as both the Army and their Walls. Outposts have some DPS and Defense potential (locked behind gold and stone) but are primarily detection units. Very fancy way of saying, itâs a gold/food heavy civ. So yes, it has gold boosting landmarks. This also means using generic strategies which work against wall/keep building civs, will translate poorly when fighting Mongols.
- I already mentioned above why Mongols have a spike of win rates in early Castle Age. Itâs not Redoubt.
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In Early RTS, nobody knows what theyâre doing. Even Pro Streamers are currently stuck crutching on translating RTS fundamentals while stumbling through trying to understand COE 4 properly. The Meta isnât established. Thereâs game breaking bugs and awkward control systems. For example, the universal grid system is atrocious. This makes much of the Data from this period⊠volatile. Thereâs a huge degree variable for error here.
That said, I fully expect Mongols to get nerfâd into the ground within this year and probably stay over nerfâd for awhile. Fighting Mongols more than any other Civ, has the scary âfog of warâ effect. Mongols can shut down your scouting early. If you donât understand their mechanics, then your imagination runs wild. Then you get crushed in a match, which plays towards your confirmation bias. And in your case, encourages you to take that original bias and attempt to support it with data.
Although data should form biases and not visa versa. Because thatâs how science works. People donât work like science. So I fully expect for the next year there to plenty of threads like this, loosely attaching a âMongols is brokeâ to data points which donât support the bias until the Dev team guts Mongol play by using a headspace that dosent work for a No Wall / No Keep / Limited Stone Civ.
yes I know that the rate that the game shows goes up, so I looked for the lowest number, the steppe showed with a villager collects between 60 and 63 per minute, with all technologies between 75 and 78 per minute, other civilizations with all mining technologies, a villager collects between 50 and 52 per minute. In conclusion, steppe bonus is 150%, and gold is the essential resource for castle units.
Mongol has always been between 1st and 2nd in all patches, I bet most of them left the game, it was after they couldnât against a mongol
Honestly, I think this boils down to something incredibly simple. Something that should be said aloud for honestyâs sake, and not hid under illusions of science and data, or random conjecture about player retention. It doesnât even require booting up a skirmish map to see it.
You donât like Mongols.
Nothing wrong with that. If that hate goes deep, find/design/practice a Civ/Build/Comp which hard counters and abuse every Mongol player you run across on ladder. But youâll have to do that leg-work. Iâm not gonna design it for you. Iâm sure there are Mongol support groups for that sort of thing.
However asking the Devâs to nerf an entire civilization, to do a majority of the legwork, when your proposal data/science dosent even make sense. Is uh⊠well, youâre really asking for the premium package on your 60 dollar purchase here.
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I am against the imbalance, I am also proposing buffs as in the value of the outpost. The ones who need therapy are the ones who played mongol when the cost of the outpost was low, with the bonus they had before the ovo and they feel good about winning with the tower rush and causing others to leave the game, those people give me grief
If Redoubt was the definition of imbalance as youâve proposed, it. Simply because the Mongol player earns more gold than other Civs. Then youâd be equally outraged that Mongols potential for stone production is way behind every other Civ. Yet, I see no threads denouncing it.
Truth is, both are silly comparisons to make. You canât simplify civilization balance down to resource-on-resource comparisons. What Stone means to Mongols is not what Stone means to French. What Gold means to Mongols, is not what Gold means to English. Yes, itâs the same set of pixels. However, it dosent serve the same function within context.
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the mongols donât have walls hahaha because they give a âpotentialâ for collecting stone âwhat a jokeâ. Now I am going to assume that you are a Mongolian lover, congratulations for all those who left the game when they lost when you play Mongolian, congratulations be proud
I know that the Mongols do not have farms, with all the bonuses of the mills, the other civilizations collect +10 food per villager, in imperial age, compared to sheep. Compare to steppe and ovoo bonuses each villager collects about 80 gold per minute. If that is why they give you a lot of bonuses, at least do it gradually towards the imperial age, the 150% bonus, in gold, is in castles, I propose that the 150% bonus, from the steppe, progress 125% in castles and +25% in imperial age
I think they get picked less because they are not an easy Civilization to play.
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the point I am going to is that if you have a low pick rate then your real winrate is higher than what it reflects
Ha! Look at the top 10 ranked players. None of them, that is zero, as in null, are playing Mongols to climb the ladder and/or stay there. They all beat the Mongols every time they play against the Mongols. Your assertion that the Mongols are OP because you can not beat them is completely wrong. Watch the replays of the top 10 players in the ranked games. You will learn, or at least you should be able to learn, strategies to counter the Mongols when your opponent chooses them.
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I like the general winrate, surely the nerf of the siege hurt the Mongol, who creates it in the field, I have only tried to analyze the reason for the constant Mongol leadership in winrate. This gives rise to start working on new civilizations, but do not disregard our opinions for your decisions
The minutes with the highest number of games have a winrate of 51%, so I made PEACE with the Mongol, I guess that the nerf of the siege harmed him. On the other hand, I also propose to reduce the cost of the outpost, in the age of castles, In exchange for nerfing the steppe a bit, if you look closely I also give proposals that improve the Mongol, I am also aware that the Mongol lacks the bonuses of the farms⊠in short, my intention is the balance of the game I have no hostility to any civilization
I admit I have a grudge against the Mongol for the high rate of winrate he had at the beginning, already it is difficult for the âeloâ under the tower rush and the Mongols produce x2. I think the siege nerf and possible tower rush nerf will nerf it.
I understand that the bonuses of both the steppe and those provided by the ovvo are due to the absence of keep, the truth is that I underestimated how hard the towers are on the face. Iâll wait for the wirate results. If Beastyqtâs prediction is true, they could still return the feudal heavy cavalry to the Mongol, which for those who didnât know the Mongol had heavy cavalry in the first closed beta of the game
Congrats. Mongols are now the bottom tier civ.
Hope your happy.
They got Stone nerf on ovoo.
Yam Network has been nerfed massivly
Khan got nerfed.
Signal arrow got nerfed.
Bounty got nerfed.
Siege is now rather weak. Usefull but weak.
Siege built in the field by infantry does not benefit from upgrades. So that in a essence is a mega nerf.
Khaganate Palace is as useless as ever.
What more nerfs do they need?
Shorter range on mangudai?
Remove imp. Upgrades?
I dunno man. To many people QQ about mongols just because of tower rush that any civ can do pretty much do.
That isnât problem of the Civ. Thats problem around the tower design.
Another fact why you have the 50% gold boost from Steppe Redoubt is because its not worth going for a second TC as mongols. And as mongols you will always be behind Vills.
The steppe redoubt is the only thing that allows mongols to catch up despite being behind on vills.
These stats do not show that the Mongols are OP. They show that the people who play against the Mongols do NOT know how to counter the Mongols. In the stats you posted the Mongols are only chosen 11.9% of the time. And within that 11.9% the player who chose them won 52% of the time. So 52% of 11.9% is 6%. You all need to learn how to read stats and analyze them.
Do a pull on the top 10 players and see which Civs they are using to win. It wonât be Mongols. If the Mongols were truly OP then the top ten players would always play Mongols. The top 10 players always win against Mongols. Always. Pull the stats yourselves.
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happy to know that only Beasty and his friends plays mongols.
No other player should play it. Nice.
want boost mongols? - give them options which hard utilize for noobs. not just boost timings with +1 vil. or it will repeat HRE.
And you will blame devs for poor balance. LOL.
But HRE change just saved 50 wood.
I guess working by this logicâŠ
Mongol Steppe redoubt needs buff now!