That was the original idea for the Samurai prior to the release in 1999 but was discarded because was too problematic to use.
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I was thinking more like Total War Three Kingdoms, I quit AoE3 after 1 day like 10 years ago, that game was so terrible. Not that I play 3K much either.
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Now this is an idea. The whole point of my initial post was to propose an innovative, not too radical a change to Elephant Archers so it justifies the cost and sees more use except on certain games and situations. But no, clearly many people here have some kind of Pachydermophobia so they are okay with this great unit being sparingly used.
And donât turn AOE2 into AOE3 is a lame argument. Personally I never liked anything about AOE3 but the music but AOE2DE is all about changes, new civs, new innovations, new possibilities and this archaic why-fix-it-if-it-ainât-broken argument just doesnât cut it.
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An proposal idea: Make the EEA fire two arrows similar to CKN and Kipchaks
If it possible I would make them fire two arrows to a different targets at the same time (simulating two archers on top of the elephant) first arrow/target -w/more attack value- control by the player the second arrow would go to the secondary closer target
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I would prefer extra range (again). But this can be tried, although I think it is not possible to add another different attack to an unit with the engine.
The only alternative I can think is giving EA more arrows, but reducing their accuracy (so their arrows âspreadâ to other units, like arambai attacks). Spreading arrows can be ok against massed units, and given that massed elephants are difficult to kill without massing units, this can be a cool buff. Or maybe an horrible one, because EA has a bonus against buildings and they may became tanky arambais that destroy all buildings despite horrible accuracy.
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Could you have the same effect by doubling the attack rate?
elephant machine-gun
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Itâs 44 Elite skirm shots actually, only 10 more than you need for a war wagon.
It takes 24 seconds for an EA to kill a skirm vs 133 seconds the other way round
17.5 seconds for a War Wagon vs 99 seconds the other way round.
So you need three Elite skirmishers to kill either of them and if I am correct only one survives in both cases.
Though I donât think Elephant archers are that awful, that Viper video really doesnât proof anything. As has been stated before: He plays against people very far below his own level of skill, and yeah, he said the unit is good, but has he used them in professional play since then? I would not be aware of that. And if thatâs not the case his assessment in this one case is pretty meaningless.
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I have observed many spectator games and these are my observations.
Persian players often go for War Elephants, so anyone saying that they are unused should observe more Persian Games.
The Battle Elephant Civ players also often use Battle Elephants even when Pikemen are spammed. It is a common usage unit.
In short, anyone who says that War Elephants and Battle Elephants are not used by the playerbase are not spectating enough games. They are used frequently by the elephant civs.
Elephant Archers and Ballista Elephants are another story, however.
Khmer players rarely ever use Ballista Elephants, I have only seen them in 2 games out of 15.
The Indian players that I observed never used Elephant Archers. They always went for Imperial Archers.
I think that the Ballista Elephant is unique in that it can clear trees in Castle Age and can hit multiple targets. But the Elephant Archer does not have any good perks as far as I can see. I can positively say that in my opinion, the ranged Elephant units are underused by the playerbase.
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EA may be changed, but please, to become a strong option in 1v1, where Indians are weakâŠ
If you get them to spam trash units then youâre winning because they suck hard in battle royale. In your case comboing ele archers with hand cannoneers would have greatly helped you to beat them. In my game ele archers allowed me to repel several waves of mangudai and to obliterate an enemy that was spamming too much trash. If anything BR is the best mode for ele archers to shine since you bypass all the expensive techs and complementing them with other units is easier as well.
Regarding the subject of mutli-pop eles, ironically melee eles suck in AoE3 because they cost too much pop for not enough power while ranged eles are great. Iâm not too sure about AoM eles tho.
This is a very different series from AoE Iâm not too sure game mechanics from there can work well for us.
They are kind of OK. Sure they donât have knights but the enemy canât really use them against you either, and the additional pierce armour bonus helps them, especially since in imp you donât have to pay for the armour upgrade to be protected against archers.
I feel them quite vulnerable, especially to eagles, and meso civs have huge pick rates. Sure they have 40f vills which is a very solid bonus.
My point is that, if a buff is needed it should be for 1v1, not sure if EAs can help.
But this becomes a problem near the end of the game when resources are low and you have the central castle and the resource buildings are either consumed by the fog or under enemy control. To be able to afford to create enough EA to stand their ground with their slow movement speed compounded by the sluggishness of multiplayer games probably due to high latency.
Ele archers are both durable and not relying on micro, I donât get how those points would harm them. Regarding cost, the Indian army doesnât rely that much on wood (unless you want to use HCA instead) so some trade workshop abuse can help.
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Hello everyone. Since my last Reply on this topic on Elephant Archers, I have been playing a bunch of CBA with my AoE2 friends, and I can say that Elephant Archers are not entirely useless.
My friend got put as Indians in one such CBA game, and another allied player and myself were stuck with Aztecs and Celts (Jaguar Warriors and Woad Raiders) and we were facing against an enemy Lithuanian player and an enemy Turks player (Leitis and Janissaries) and I asked my friend and ally to sent a pack of Elephant Archers over to our side of the map to deal with the Janissaries, and the Elephant Archers wreaked house like you would not believe. Not only were the Janissaries struggling to kill the elephants, but the Leitis were also hard pressed to knock my friendâs elephant archer battalion, and that is with the Leitis ignoring melee armor on enemy units and the Janissaries with their high attack (high even for a gunpowder unit).
Yeah yeah I know it is just in CBA and not in typical PvP games, but I just want to let you all know that the Elephant Archer is not âentirely uselessâ. To say so is tantamount to claiming that the devs absolutely did not know what they were doing AT ALL when they tested and put in the Elephant Archer in the first place in Age of Empires 2.
I do NOT think that the devs are entirely STUPID in adding Elephant Archers. Yes, maybe back then they could have done more to explore the purpose of the Elephant Archers and maybe they could have done more to buff them. But the Elephant Archer can find a use if you just find the right moment in which they can be useful. As my friend and I have found, a large pack of said Elephant Archers can be a literal barrier that can stop cavalry AND ranged units from progressing any further.
As ive calculated before elephant archers arent that bad, neither in terms of cost or production speed effectiveness when compared to crossbows fighting knights. Only pig problem is, that they are way too easily counteted by halbs. You cant get a mass going that can kill them fast enough and you cant kite them either. Therefore i propose a small buff: parthian tactics is right now giving +4 attack vs pikes to the cavalry archer unit and only +2 to all unique cav archer units. Change this to +4 for the elephant archer, to make it slightly easier for them to clear halbs.
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They also used in death match games.
Uh actually when the elephant archers was first introduced Indian didnât have ring archer armour, so the devs did make the mistake of overestimating both ele archers and shatagni HC. Also I suspect their UU is the ele archer because it would remind people of AoE1 and to avoid giving them the same UU as the Persian.
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Or just give Elephant Archers more melee armor? Like +2 more melee armor should do the trick if Halberdiers are really that big of an issue.
+2 melee armor isnât going to do crap for EA when halbs literally do 60 bonus damage alone to them.
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Then how would you propose making the Elephant Archers better then, Mat?