Another Greek Fire Thread

I think most people agree that the “recent” change to Greek Fire in which it gives Bombard Towers splash damage is almost entirely useless. Not to mention it is weird for a Castle Age UT to only effect an Imperial Age building (on land maps). However, having it serve a defensive bonus (which I believe was the intent of the developers) doubles downs on the Byzantines classification as a Defensive Civilization. So here is my idea for Greek Fire as a defensive tech.


“Towers, Bombard Towers, Castles, and Town Centers deal bonus damage to nearby units. Especially siege and ships”


The way this would work is that the defensive structure will fire an extra projectile (or several in the case of TC and Castles) when its target is within 3 (or maybe 4) tiles away. These projectiles would deal a minimal amount of damage but with a large bonus against siege and ships. It would also have the standard minimum range of 1 before Murder Holes.

I can’t see this breaking the game balance as defensive structures are usually pushed with cannon and trebuchets. However, it would make Byzantines very very difficult to push with rams. Which is again in line with them being a defensive civ. This is different from the Persians new unique tech because Greek Fire would only really be useful against rams, due to its extremely limited range. Further, it would effect all defensive structures and not just Castles. The bonus against ships is just a nod to history more than anything else as no one is going to be sitting their ships directly under a castle or tower.

This would still be a situational tech but at least it would be useful more often than once in a blue moon.

Another idea is that Greek Fire could just be changed to have defensive structures pulse aoe damage in a 1 tile radius but I feel like that would be near impossible to balance.

Of course the +1 range for Fireships would be preserved as well.

4 Likes

It depends how the AoE aura works. Is it every tile of wall? Does it stack infinitely?

I haven’t given a whole lot of thought to how the AoE aura would work as I really think it would be hard to balance. But I thought it might be a fun idea people could discuss. Just off the top of my head it could deal 3-5 damage to all enemy units in a 1 tile radius of a Castle or 1-2 damage to all enemy units within a 0.5 tile radius of a Tower or TC. Exact numbers would have to be balanced over time. Fire rate would be the same as the structures normal attack. Maybe it could have a cap on the number of units hit? Like towers would max out at 4 and castles and tc would max out at 10?

Final Edit: It would not stack. I can see that being abused if it did.

What do you think of my primary idea though?

Maybe it can just upgrade normal towers to Fire Towers, or give them Fire Tower properties without changing the name.

That would be really cool thematically and visually. Would you want it to be a unique structure or just a copy paste from The Forgotten. How would it interact with other tower upgrades like Fletching or Arrowslits? Which Fire Tower properties would you want it to have? Should Byzantines be given a unique Fire Tower line from the start, like how the Sicilians have a Donjon, which the Greek Fire tech would buff?

I would say tower and castle +1 damage, fireship +0.2 blast radius and +1 damage to ship(or attack faster) instead of 1 range

I actually like this idea as a sort of superlative defense upgrade. I think 3-4 tiles is too much, though. Something like, ‘Towers and Castles automatically spray fire on all enemies within a 1-tile radius’ would be cool, though. Basically a sort of alternative to Murder Holes. It shouldn’t do enough damage on its own to make rams useless, but enough to make them need more help.

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I never understood why greek fire doesn’t enable fire towers instead of bombard towers which would better fit thematically byzantines. Also flamethrowers to be trained in siege workshop instead of bombards could be a good idea.

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Honestly, GreekFire should have unlocked Flaming Tower that already exists in the editor. That tower is actually quite good.

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Yeah, I never understand this. Are those Fire Towers THAT broken?

From my test, The tower’s damage cannot be upgraded by anything, but the range is affected by black smith range upgrade (it also has accuracy problem at long range like fireship). It does good damage against ram but it still take quite some time to destroy it. It does ok damage against Units but still not as good as bombard tower. I say it’s quite balanced by default.

It’s somewhere between watch tower and bombard tower with a gimmick of doing good damage against ram.

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My theory is that they didn’t want to create a new building design for the Fire Tower (it’s currently using the same as a Bombard Tower’s, which would confuse players) and that giving something to Bombards was the much simpler approach.

Seems like we now know, that this Fire Tower needs to get added along with a new architecture for the next Byzantines civ rework. If it gets a rework at all.

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Svan Towers can function as fire Towers