Any ideas for last buffs to Tatars?

I played a lot with them lately and I feel they are okay, but the stats don’t lie, they are among the lowest tier civs:
What I found interesting is the fact that they perform better at lower levels than higher ones.
By locking their strenghts is obvious that their cavalry archers and hussars are among the strongest, but they look so obvious and predictable at that point, their biggest weakness is also against meso civs since they lack a good answer to them.
They don’t need a dark age bonus because they already have their herdables with more food, in castle age they have free thumb ring which is huge and Imperial is where they become more powerful. only in feudal is where they seems empty but the herdabel bonus helps a little.
One Idea that I like a lot is Silk Armor giving +1/+1 instead of just +1PA, this would helps them a little against eagle warriors at the best, but not sure if they need more or less…
Any ideas??

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Flaming Camels should be available in the Imperial Age without researching Timurid Siegecraft and buff Cavalry Archers by removing 2 or 3 frame delay (8 or 7 remains)

+a general Steppe Lancer buff


  1. general Steppe Lancer buff
  2. general Cavalry Archer buff
  3. general Hand Cannoneer buff
  4. Flaming Camel buff

these 3 i can agree too.

i think the devs have said their piece on the flaming camel and tech locking it. that being that they are fine with it being tech locked and don’t intend to change it.

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Would a civ bonus as “Cavalry Archers move 10% faster each age” (Castle + Imp) for a total of 20% faster moving Cav Archers be good? This might fit with their theme of hitting the opponent fast (free thumbring and pt).

Cumans already have fast moving cavalry archers.

  1. cumans want their bonus back.
  2. That would be beyond broken without the removal of Husbandry. (1.85 speed).
  3. how do you counter?
  1. 11 I didn’t know that it affected CA, mainly because I never make CA with Cumans.
  2. Removing husbandry would nerf their scout line too much, maybe reduce the bonus to 5 + 5 per age
  3. Skirms? Idk how else CA get countered.

I just wanted them to feel like a better hit and run civ, as a problem I run into is that when I move the CA back and stop them to shoot, I have to cancel the shooting animation to make them go further back and avoid damage.

this is better, but still steps on the toes of the cumans.

who they can easily run from.

i think the best answer is just to lower the frame delay a bit on cav archers.

Honestly, I think this is enough of a buff. That makes their hussars beyond excellent but it’s not lopsidedly op either (considering bulgars get highest dps hussars, among other thigns.
Yes, Tatars are predictable, but with their set of bonuses adaging their go-to options so well (free range techs), they’re also hard to stop. You know what you’re going in to against Franks (knights), Mongols (mangudai), and Indians (camels) most of the time, so being predictable isn’t that big of a deal if the options are fine

I think they don’t need much of a buff given current state of balance, however it’s an agreed notion among most people that cavalry archers feel a lot weaker in DE, and it’s likely due to the animation/firing speed. Feels different between versions. If that was fixed, Tatars would be fine. So I get the impression if everything in DE behaved as it should, Tatars wouldn’t need a buff, but since pathing and animation issues are so affectual on gameplay lately it comes off different in practice :confused:

For those who don’t know, most de unit animations have on average like 30-45 frames in contrast to like the 6 to 12 ish of aoe2 hd and voobly. numbers might not be 100% accurate but that’s the jist of it.

That said, if I were to buff them any differently, I would tweak their tech tree a little. I get the idea behind them missing infantry armor 2, but i doubt having it would make them too strong. All they’d need it for are halbs, and their halbs are awful

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The ideal is to not make more overlapping bonuses.

i agree, which is why i said it steps on their toes.

I’m not asking for update about Tatars, just some ideas below if we are sure that Tatars would be updated.

  • Flaming Camel can be directly trainable at the castle in the imperial age without any precondition.
  • The UT “Timurid Siegecraft” can improve Flaming Camel. Maybe increase the blast radius by 0.5 tile, etc.

Flaming Camel needs strict skill requirements or luck to show its value well, preconditions may limit it too much in my opinion.

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it already got this in the last patch, it doesn’t need more range.

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Here is talking about the update of the related tech.
If the flaming camel is regarded already good, it is acceptable to remove the related effect about flaming camels from the Timurid Siegecraft since they need the preconditions no more.

I agree here. The moment they fix that awful frame delay/attack animation on CA, they will buff tatars… But then again that’ll buff huns as well…

And when they fix HC that’ll give tatars a possibly better solution to goths…

And hopefully they fix the terrible accuracy on CA as well although that won’t help tatars.

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Balance is not made around stats 11. Stats don’t lie but it is easy to misinterpret stats therefore lie. Low winrate is definitely not equal to weak civ

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