AOE2 DLC proposal - "Descendants of the Deccan"

AOE2 has become diversified in terms of design with the addition of ‘The Last Chieftans’ DLC. My idea is to explore this idea further with a DLC themed on the uniqueness of elephants and expanding them as part of gameplay as well as new campaigns.

My idea of DOI2: “Descendants of the Deccan” is based on a period of time when chola domination declined uniformly across south india and their matrimonial allies chalukyas both west and eastern lost their way. It gave rise to new dynasties split along linguistic lines. Pandyas (Tamils), Hoysalas(Kanndigas), Kakathiyas (Telugus) and calicut kingdom (Malayalis). Since Dravidians represent all these lingusitic and geographic groups, the split should give the civilizations their own campaigns and voicelines while sharing regional units, unit skins and archiecture. The region shared a blacksmith heritage with ‘woots steel’ being refered in a slightly different tone in different languages of the region. They had varying degrees of quality with Telugu territory making the best quality ones. Tamils were the best at vertical integration of the industry and exports. The unique techs and bonuses reflect this as well.

The first civ will be:

  1. Dravidians renamed to (Keralites)
  2. Tamils
  3. Kannadigas
  4. Telugus

Tamils and Malayalis are presented as sister civs who will share a unique unit the formerly Thirisadai because they shared a language and were under same rulers the cholas till they both went their separate ways.

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**Dravidians Rework

Malayalis Keralites - Archer and Naval civilization**

Keralites are based on Malayali speaking people of calicut kingdom which endured through neighbourhood Tamil, deccan kingdom and hindustani threats from north India. They fought against the Portuguese and other modern western powers as well to maintain their autonomy well after AOE4 timelines as well. Their ancestors were chera kingdom which had a bow and arrow as flag. This makes them a good candidate for receiving the faster attacking skirm and elephant archer bonus. Their natural forest resources make them the best candidate to make use of Dravidians template. The Urumi swordsmen is also a product of Kalaripayat martial arts which is mainly Keralite. Kerala hosted merchant fleets being brought to their coast by the monsoon winds. But Tamils actively engaged in outbound trade. So the +5 pop space is best given to this civ


• NEW - Receive +10 wood for every villager created
• Skirmishers and Elephant Archers attack +25% faster
• Blacksmith attack upgrades are 50% cheaper
• NEW - Siege units cost 33% less wood Buildings, Ships and Siege are repaired 50% faster. [Optional]

Team Bonus:
Docks provide +5 pop space

Unique Units:

  • Urumi Swordsman (Infantry),
  • New - Colandia (சொழாந்தியம்)(Thirisadai renamed)(Warship) - Generates +10 gold per kill

Unique Techs:
CHANGE - Woots steel moved to castle age
• Wootz Steel (Infantry remove armour like Obuch)

Medical Corps(Elephant Units regenerate 30 HP per minute)

Tech tree Change

  • Both husbandry and bloodlines. But no cavalry armour upgrades in blacksmith.

Tamils - Infantry and Naval civilization

This is the design I want to propose for the Tamils after 12th century. The pandyas continued patronage of trade similar to imperial cholas who were extremely wealthy through trade and thus the civ design is mainly late game oriented. The Venetian traveler Marco Polo visited the Pandya kingdom and described it as the “richest and most splendid province in the world” specifically noting the abundance of pearls and precious stones. They were so rich they would import huge number of war horses every year which will be replaced again the next year due to improper vetinary care.

The design will incentivize the civ to go for gold heavy pop-efficient units which will end up being its strength as well as weakness. The civ’s main weakness is against archers, skirms and cav archers. They only get fully upgraded skirms for balance reasons. This weakness derives historically from their eventual fall to the delhi sutanate who were good with horse archery and used mobility tactics to overcome the heavy cavalry disadvantage against Tamils. Monks will get bonuses to function as counter to cavalry in early castle age along with valari thrower in late-game. The fish flag of pandyas goes rather well with their team bonus.

• Buildings and technologies which cost wood return 20% of total cost as gold on completion. (Excluding farms and fish traps)
• Barracks and market technolgies are 50% cheaper.
Siege units and Colandia(Thirisadai) have 10/20% more HP in castle and imperial age.[Optional]
• Fervor and sancity effects are doubled. [To honour bakthi movement, Shaivism speard quickly, Killed Jain monks in political confrontations]

Team Bonus:
Fishermen and Fishing ships +5 carry capacity [Current patch Gather rate has been reduced by 15%. Fishing ships just sit there for too long. So bonus modified]

Unique Techs:
• Kodumanal Ingots (Infantry and cavalry +1 attack for all allies) Cost 300 food and 300 Gold
• Lankan Elephants (Elephants move 25% faster) Cost 600 Food and 500 Gold

Unique Units:

  • Colandia (சொழாந்தியம்)(Thirisadai renamed) (Warship) Generates +10 gold per kill (Large ships historically used for trade and war)
  • Valari thrower (ranged Infantry) (castle unit) - Long ranged Melee attack unit whose weapon returns to the unit which increases the attack speed the closer the target is. Attacks in straight line. Attack is 10(12) melee, Speed is 1.0, range is 6(7). Armour is 0/0.

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Unit information -Valari Thrower

Type Infantry

Civilization Tamils AoE2

Castle Age Pronunciation Va’zha-ri Thrower

Training Trained at Castle

Food 40 Gold 30

Training time 12 seconds

Statistics Hit points 40, 50 (Elite)

Melee attack 3, 5 (Elite)

Attack bonus +7 vs Cavalry

Reload time Variable - Unique ability

Attack delay 0.2

Range 6, 7 (Elite)

Minimum range 1

Accuracy 90%

Projectile speed 14 (Unique ability)

Melee armor 0

Pierce armor 0

Armor class Infantry Unique Units

Speed 1.0

Line of Sight 8, 9 (Elite)

Upgrades to Elite Valari thrower

Upgrade cost 800 food, 500 gold

Upgrade time 45 seconds

Wonder - Meenakshi Temple - Probably a simplified version of the image below

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Meenakshi Temple

Overall tech tree can be similar to Dravidians. But late game needs to be buffed a bit to show they were the successor version. The tech tree also incentivises gold heavy units rather than gold efficient units. Some minor tweaks to tech tree is needed like

Tech tree

  • Remove last infantry armour, halberdier to incentivize use of Valari thrower and monks
  • Add Elite battle elephan, elite elephant archer and siege elephant upgrade to incentivize gold heavy comp
  • Add Full monk tech tree except heresy
  • No husbandry or bloodlines. Add Last cavalry armour. Full blacksmith, no hussar
  • Remove arbalest, no hand cannon, no siege onager and bombard cannon
  • Add treadmill crane and Siege engineers
  • Add Gold shaft mining and guilds; Remove 2-man saw and Crop rotation to prevent resource efficiency for trash units

Kannadigas- Cavalry and defense Civilization

Kannadigas based on the hoysalas dynasty which was an inland, hill based people. These people were predominatly hill people who valued cavalry far more than other branches of military and imported a lot of war horses from Arabia.

• Blacksmith cavalry armour upgrades are free
• Ranged soldiers and buildings inflict +1/+2/+3 bonus damage to respective armor classes in feudal, castle and imp respectively.
Mounted units get +1/+2 attack in castle and imperial age respectively [Optional]
• Stabe technologies cost no food

Team Bonus:
Buildings have 10% more HP

Unique Units:

  • Garuda guards (Skirmisher with 100% pass through damage effect, throw javelin in straight line)
  • Bahri (``Arabian cavalry ) Trained in Stable. Cavalry which cost 120 gold due to only imports available. Stats are 100(120) HP, 11(12) attack, +0/0 melee/pierce armour and speed of light cavalry 1.5 tps. ROF=1.8. Elite upgrade costs 300 wood and 400 gold.

Unique Techs:

Castle age - Hosadurga - Stone cost of Towers and outposts removed and replaced with wood.
Imperial age - Pakhar or Paakhar - Stable units +2 Pierce armour

Wonder - Halebidu temple

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Tech tree needs to be strong buildings and ranged units. Weak to infantry and cav archers. Because historically they were overrun by Tamil infantry which was more numberous and hoyslas lost. The final blow came from the north. Hoysala empire ultimately became a vassal of Delhi sultanate which had a more proficient cav archer based battle strategy.

Tech Tree

  • Remove E Skirms which is kinda made up by Bonus
  • Remove blast furnace(due to cavalry attack bonus), halberdier, Squires and Arson
  • Cavalry is strong. But reliant on gold units. All elephant upgrades excluding Elite elephant archer and parthian tactics.
  • Poor monk tech tree similar to current Dravidians
  • No husbandry. But gets bloodlines. No light cav upgrade.
  • Remove arbalest, hand cannon, bombard cannon and Thumb ring
  • Remove heated shot and Arrow-slits. Remove architecture.
  • Add Gold shaft mining, no guilds; Remove Crop rotation to prevent resource efficiency for hussar

Telugus - Archer and defense Civilization

Telugus are based on Kakathiya kingdom. The kingdom held out for a long time against threats from southern Tamil Kingdoms and northern Sultanates. When the dynasty finally fell, Harihara and Bukka were treasury officers or military commanders in the service of King Prataparudra of the Kakatiya Dynasty in Warangal, they rallied together with people of Kannada and Telugu origins to create what eventually became the Vijayanagara empire. Their secret was their ability to identify merit and make use of them. They built up a new class of military + administrative personnel called nayaks who were similar to Roman governors. But had their own regional armies.

• Receive one nayak when a new TC is built including starting TC.
• Destroyed buildings, Ships and Siege return 15 % of cost
• Archery range units move 5/10/15 faster
Masonry and architecture effects are doubled. [ No hoardings] [Optional]

Team Bonus:
All Buildings +2 LOS

Unique Techs:

Castle age - Nayankara system - Nayaks available in Towncenter. Cost 300 Food, 150 Gold
Imperial age - Deccani cofusion steel - “Infantry and cavalry attacks ignore armour” Cost 650 food and 550 gold

Unique Units:

  • Nayakas (Special villager unit trained in town center which does not need to drop off resources to add to stockpile) Cost 50 food and 20 gold. Nayaks benefit from infantry upgrades including blacksmith and conscription.
  • Elephant lancer Trained in Castle. Ability is delivering a 100% pass though damage to the unit immediately behind the one being attacked. Stats are 250(300) HP, 12(14) attack, +1/+2 melee/pierce armour and speed of 1.0 tps. ROF=1.8. No trample damage. Elite upgrade costs 1000 food and 400 Gold.

Wonder - Warangal Gate

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The civ should exhibit Telugu resilience to rise up after adverse failures. The military should be archer based based on their lure of using archers like walls. The archery range should be full and Elephant archers should get a bonus. The secondary should be infantry when its fully upgraded which can make use of ‘woots steel’ whose quality from golconda was the best in the sub-continent. There is the ability to add mercenaries as a unit for Telugus in place of ‘Elephant lancer’ which is a more generic unit from AOE3. However I leave that option open since Elephants lancer special ability could be modified to make the unit a command post which can carry soldiers like archers & infantry.

Tech Tree

  • Full barracks and archery range except parthian tactics
  • All elephant upgrades except Elite battle elephant made up by unique unit
  • Poor monk tech tree similar to current Dravidians and good siege including siege engineers
  • No husbandry. But gets bloodlines, only light cav
  • No blast furnace, All blacksmith techs
  • Remove Gold shaft mining, Add guilds, Crop rotation, two-man saw and stone shaft mining

All civs lack husbandry because that practice was absent in south India. Bloodlines gets a pass because of elephants and the ability to import pure bred horses.

**Edit [Optional] Removed the debatable bonuses. However they are still available as optional in case they are needed for gameplay addition later. This will also bring the civs in line with classic civs with 3 main bonuses and one team bonus.

6 Likes

With Malians and Malay this gonna get confusing fast

2 Likes

The Kannagidas doesn’t sound like weak to cav archers.

Yes, it can be left as Dravidians by name. But voice lines can be Malayalam which is very close to the current voice lines. Malayalam was a mixture of Tamil with Sanskrit. So it kinda checks out. The kingdom and malayali people were the only southern kingdom to survive sultanate invasions from the north relatively intact. So the late game trash efficiency of Dravidians helps a lot here. The availability of all gunpowder units to Dravidians also makes sense only if it was used by the kingdom of calicut.

It is easy to build cav archer mass against them since they lack husbandry. I missed the tech tree holes of Kannadigas and Telugus. Kannadigas don’t get E skirms which is offset by their bonus against archers.

The biggest issue is civs taking other civs’ bonuses in steroid versions.

Like monks faster than even Slavic monks, towers cheaper than Slavic ones, buildings tougher than Byzantine ones, elephants faster and better than Khmer ones, etc… Make them good at unique things instead.

Kannadigas look like they have scary tower spam potential, with each tower even more durable than Byzantine ones. No Arrowslits kinda keeps them in line though.

1 Like

Tamils pay for the tech and they need that mobility more than Slavs to hard counter knights which they themselves lack.

Tamil elephants don’t get husbandry which is one of the themes of the region

Their spamable towers comes after a unique tech. By which time, castles are a clear counter.

The bonus overlaps are quite tame and pretty insignificant compared to what Devs did with ‘chiftans’ dlc. Infantry HP, more berries than franks etc. I even made a thread about it. I’m on the same level as you.

You can’t make civs which are punching bags.

These civs are as unique as ‘chiftans’ and ‘chinese’ civs if not more.

I’d just rename Malians to Mandinka or Mandé tbh. Malians isn’t exactly a historical name.

1 Like

“Dravidians Rework - Malayalis: A step-by-step guide on how to take situational cavalry and make them useless”

You’d be better off adding “Bloodlines and Husbandry researched from the Town Center” as a new bonus and disabling stables completely.

Isnt dravidians tamils already?whts the point of making them malyali?

The current dravidian wonder looks a lot like the gopura,maybe the dome is a better wonder but it does look like a stupa.

1 Like

Malayalis were Tamil as well. They became malayali around 12th century because they continued using Grantha script invented by Pallavas who practiced sanskrit as a court language. Pandyas revanchism tried to move towards a purer version of Tamil and Chera dynasty continued using Grantha script. 12th century also coincides with this DLC’s timeline. This interesting piece of history can be worked into the story.


This is the actual dome which is perfectly unique and according to south Indian architecture.

Devs already accomplished that feat in DOI 1. Bloodlines gives the effect of both armour upgrades combined for a total cheaper price.

If it affected villagers who spawn from TC, that would be amazing. Maybe this can be used for some European civ named the Nzs.

not sure I like this, but I’m not super opposed to it

this is huge, because it means mangonels survive a direct hit from other mangonels. I think this will be extremely hard to balance. I think this can’t work.

ugh. feels like league of legends.

I really like this change. removing armour is so much more interactable than plain “ignore armour” effects.

absolutely busted. this is a +10% boost for the majority of the economy and gold no less. Compare this to Burgundian Vineyards, which has a waaaaay smaller effect (about 1 gold for every 20 food) and only for farmers, only in castle age and after researching a tech.

super weak and too similar to bohemians (markets work 80% faster)

(+ there is no need for trade with this kind of gold generation bonus 11)

fuck aura bonuses with a rusty machete! no.

how does this mechanic change how you use this unit? it’s still squishy, so you don’t want to get too close with it, right? I don’t understand what this mechanic is meant to achieve

pretty OP, especially if no blacksmith needs to be built. At most make the first cav armour upgrade free.

so husbandry is just free?

this seems to encourage tower rushes. I don’t think the devs want to do that.

lategame cancer. Especially in addition to the doubled masonry and architecture and bonus damage from buildings.

I think this will be super strong and really un-fun to play with, play against and watch. Infinite super-powered wood only tower creep. Fun.

sry, I meant to play Magyards.

2 Likes

The Kannadigas’ towers are still game-breaking.

Why’d you change the effect of Wootz Steel and then just… give literal Wootz Steel to another civ anyway?

This could be interesting…it would be like the Atlantean villager from AoM or even the ones from AoE 3…although it will be able to boom much faster…

1 Like

Thanks

Woots steel was common throughout South India. So civs like Tamils, kannadigas, Malayalis and Sinhalese can all have variants of them. The early version of the armour removing one can be given to ‘malayalis/dravidians’ and the later version of armour ignoring can be given to Tamils who are a late game oriented civ.

Why would you think that?

Drill and Logistics are also practically universal things but that doesn’t justify every civ getting them.

Having two civs with Wootz Steel (with different effects to boot) doesn’t reflect it being common to that territory… it just means you’re out of ideas.

Thanks for e detailed feedback!

Cavalry is supposed to counter Siege. Dravidians/Malayalis, Tamils and Telugus with no knights need their Siege to be better than standard to either survive or inflict damage faster to enemy siege. So it’s balanced. If not, Devs can use the current 33% siege wood discount.

Thanks

This is a late game civ with a single eco bonus. The early gold will be less useful tool
till aging upto feudal. U can’t knight spam with the civ. Maybe monk spam. But no more than Portugese. Only high gold intensive units are upgradeable for the civ. No arbs, halbs etc. so their late game depends on this bonus. Without this bonus, this civ is not viable.

Based on history, Lankan elephants deployed for warfare greatly improved fighting capability as well as logistics.

Projectile speed should be twice that of crossbow. That alone should make the civ competitive without speed or attack increase. If it fails in testing for equal resources against knights, then attack should be increased.

Armour upgrade is just equal to frank HP bonus for feudal scouts. They don’t get knights in castle age. The reolacement unit is unique so stats or price can be modified for balance. The unit is designed currently to be worse vs knights taking into account the free armour too.

None of the new civs except malayalis get husbandry.

The civ has zero dark age bonuses. It’ll be very helpful to defend primarily. When Koreans are not tower rushing, I doubt a civ with no early bonuses can pull that off.

Like I said it’s locked behind a castle. Castles are a clear counter to this strategy. The civ is a defending civ except for cavalry used for offense. It does not even get E skirms.

HAH! maybe for scouts vs skirms! But for 97% of matchups +2/+2 armor is better.

This building looks dope for a wonder.

We could just use tamils/dravidians for both but having more is always better.

1 Like

Thanks, the civ could have the best gold theme yet according to marco polo’s accounts. A bonus on gold and a wonder with a gopuram and golden viman on top.

Malaylis survived relatively intact till AOE4 timeline and even till modern time having never been under the british crown directly. So should idealy have good late trash game as well as all gunpowder units. The tech trees of other civs should ideally lose mobile gunpower units such as hand cannons and bombard cannons. But I am currently not sure how to balance that. Maybe stronger elephant bonuses.