Begs the question of who is better, horrible old curmudgeons, or kids with no respect nor care for the franchise.
Seems to be one or the other, with shockingly little room for nuance!
Oh, I’m very happy for any new players who wander in here and enjoy themselves playing aoe4. I’d enjoy it, too, if I wasn’t aware of the abomination it has wrought.
Everyone is welcome in this walled garden. Those kids are welcome to hang out here and pluck their way around our sneering disdain.
I’ll just be over here in the corner staying very quiet and still, just like that gd TC chicken.
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Ah, but it’s not new players, it’s kids, specifically.
You call yourself a grump willingly. I’m a fan of self-deprecation, too. But I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been called not a true fan, even though I’m someone who played AoE II for years. And I’m sure you and others have been called less flattering things too (just as I’ve seen people describe AoE II fans, how I’ve seen AoE II fans describe III, and so on). Still, better than other communities I’ve been in online. And I’ve been in a few.
If you want to grump, grump. But that’s separate to stuff mattering.
Stuff doesn’t matter because the reason is irrelevant. The devs could have an ironclad reason that nobody could argue with plastered across a forum banner, and it wouldn’t matter.
It might change some minds. But it wouldn’t matter. The overall perception would be the same. I think that’s what sticks with me the most. And it’s fine! Opinion is important. But opinion on the whole likes this game branded as an Age of Empires game. So where does that leave people?
Like, the icons aren’t perfect. But I prefer them to AoE II.
You know what’s memorable about AoE II for me? Certainly not the godawful main menu UI. Well, okay, it’s memorable. But not in a good way. Not really the icons either.
It’s the rocket car, and priest armies (and wololo of course). I can’t answer TheAchronic’s question because the icons are in my head. They’re there. I can see them like I can see the AoE II ones. I don’t have a favourite, but I one hundred percent prefer the style of IV. It’s more consistent.
Amusingly, I think the weapon upgrades in both games are my least favourite, of both bunches.
Personally I don’t care or look for “endearing” in icons. I look simply for the conveyance of information which the AoE4 icons do as well or better than others.
Well they are completely identical in function. They aren’t even different buildings really. Just like everyone has the same icon for barracks in I believe every AoE game, civs have the same icon for shared buildings here. They just gave it a different name for some historical flavor it seems. They could have just called it “university” as well.
This is my point exactly. I invited both you and Gorb to share kindly icons that you very much enjoyed.
There just isn’t any. The fact is, the reason anyone would prefer the current set of icons is completely disconnected from what can be enjoy about artwork in general. And instead of being honest, there is a constant pushback in defiance. Always is the reason for rejecting these proposals related to what is “better”–but that is not the truth. There is nothing better about what you suggest or why you like it. And the same goes for what we like and enjoy, obviously-- it is preference.
However, I find it bizarre and upsetting that this thin veil that folks hide behind is used as a weapon to refuse change and to reject compromise. It reminds me of the “crabs in a bucket” phenomenon. You got yours, now you’ve closed your ears. And the reality is, we both could be out of the bucket, we both could have iconography that satisfies us. I’ll reiterate that you can both have beauty and function; you should not defend the current state of affairs simply because they favour you only; it isn’t as if we are want chaos and disorder either.
But, no. “I don’t care or look for “endearing” in icons. I look simply for the conveyance of information which the AoE4 icons do as well or better than others.” is all you need to shut down anyone’s grievances with this.
I again invite you guys to show what is so lovely about these icons. And please, who cares if they fit the equally awful main menu. If the in-game icons can be salvaged, that would be a plus–I too suggest redesigning the main menu look.
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Different enough for a new name, different enough for a new icon. This isn’t complicated stuff, but they utterly failed to care about the design rules of previous games.
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Above there are two letters, a, one with many ornaments and the other simple, the simple one is of the SANS SERIF type, and its functionality is to facilitate reading, that is its function and it fulfills it well (like the font of this same forum !); So no matter how much someone is fascinated by the letter with ornaments, it is not optimal for reading, the same analogy is with the icons that I already explained and argued! If someone is a fan of the ornamental exuberance of the Baroque, it is up to them and fanatical biases
As I said for me the purpose of icons is to convey information clearly. Not to be works of art. I can’t name one for AoE2 either which I have played for thousands of hours, because I just do not care about that in an icon at all.
Huh? Dude I have said many times that UI mods so people can have whatever icons they want would be great. How am I being dishonest?
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I have not “shut down” anyone’s grievances. I have contradicted some who have said they do not convey information as well as say the AoE2 icons, I have not shut down anyone’s opinion on their personal art preferences.
Please read this slowly so it is clear:
AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES, UI mods so that everyone can have whatever type of icons they like would be the best solution. What is uncompromising about that? It’s like you want a fight where there is none.
The Madrasa and the University are not different though, they cost the same, have the same stats, and have the exact same techs available.
You were pointing out above how in AoEO the barracks has the same icon for everyone except the civ who has a unique building instead of a barracks, you seem fine with that? The Madrasa is not a unique building, it is just a university.
It would be like giving the barracks of different civs different icons even though they are the same.
You complain a lot about them not caring about things like historical flavor for the civs, they literally just gave it a different name for that reason. Would it be better if they just called it a university as well?
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@HasanIchess, this is just a strawman. Though I figure that is likely better than sharing your favourite icon.
Again, I fail to see how you fail to see my point. The statement that this is something you do not care about means you shouldn’t even be voicing your opinion on it. But, you do. Because it seems you believe it will butt heads with the way you think they should be designed. I keep saying this, but you won’t lose your precious icons that convey information by giving them a little spirit. I guess you simply don’t believe that. Graphic design isn’t magic, and this can be accomplished with a little time and effort. We can both have what we want.
But voicing your opinion, like I stated earlier “in defiance” whenever someone says the icons needs change, gives the wrong messages to the developers and it expresses to maintain the status quo.
It is uncomprimising because you seem to be missing the point. Me, you, everyone and their mom wants the damn UI mods to work. In the absence of that, and assuming it’ll never come (let’s be real here), the discussion of making changes to the UI is being had. When your only response is “yea we need UI mods”, while we agree, it means you’re not adding anything to the discussion and if anything, the statement seems to suggest “I don’t want to change things as they are” if we never got those mods.
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You are arguing against a strawman to me…
It is like you are intentionally ignoring the relevant parts of what I said.
I claimed Hasanichess was pulling the strawman, not you. Let me edit that.
Then read my edit. Am I correct in assuming that, if these mods never come, that you reject the proposals of changing the current icons towards a more compromising style? If so, then there is no misunderstanding on my part. I didn’t ignore it as much as I simply made an assumption of this being the case.
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That would be lame, too. They should have simply made a different building. Only the Greeks in AoEO have an Academy, but many civs have a tech-only building. They have civ immersive names, civ immersive icons, and civ immersive techs. Seriously, this isn’t hard.
My point was that YOU are arguing against a strawman and not what I have actually said. You seem to be intentionally ignoring most of what I am saying.
No you are not correct at all in assuming that. That is not something that I have ever said or suggested. I am perfectly fine with them with tweaking the icons.
Maybe don’t do that then. Especially when it is almost in direct contradiction to what I am actually saying. I have even said multiple times in other threads that they could change the icons to be just as informative, but also more artistic.
But everyone having a “barracks”, a “town center”, an “armory”, etc… is ok? Just seems pretty arbitrary.
They just gave the Muslim civs a different name for the university, for immersion as you say. Same with the various names for monks (although some actually are unique such as scholars and prelates). The actual unique buildings, of which each civ has several, DO have unique icons.
Then honestly, I fail to see why you would reply to a comment egging on those who are asking for things to remain as they are. If you only intended on expressing that you like it as it is; but neglect to mention that you wouldn’t mind change, then can you see how this lack of clarity makes you out to be taking the stance that you are against change?
Seems like there is lack of understanding and clarity from both sides. Either way, doesn’t matter, moving on.
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What you wrote does not mean anything xD
If you don’t care about icons, AOE4 UI needs to be empty,
A complete blank box with text the saying +1 melee attack
And remember all the tech rows etc
if that is what you want…
Good luck with that!
What a JOKE!
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I have no problem with personal tastes, I also have mine, do not underestimate the developers who are the ones who must be convinced, I would not write anything in this thread, if what I read to you was this statement: “I have nostalgia for the old version and I want similar icons because it’s my personal taste” and that’s it, then that would raise the need to modify the mods so that each player can use the mods they want in the qualifiers, something that only aoe2 does, and aoe4 would have to occupy time to develop that.
It’s that simple, I made very personal suggestions and the developers have simply told me that this would be something of very low priority on the list, I was patient and after many months, they fulfilled it; I also suggested more control groups, which I think few care about, but anyway I will be patient and I am not trying to convince the rest of why this is necessary, I just hope that it will be at the bottom of the list of priorities and one day I will see my solcitrud done. That’s all, peace
You mean this comment:
Where Gorb was talking about if we could mod it so everyone could get what they want? And I agreed…
Sorry I must be missing the “egging on those who are asking for things to remain as they are”.
I never said I was against change though. My comment was literally agreeing with someone suggesting a good compromise…
Why not just speak to what I actually say instead of making assumptions and putting words in my mouth so that you have something imaginary to argue with.
Huh?
You can really see the weapon breaking, therefore it is defense, and it is also possible to identify which is an arrow and what is a sword. Putting words is not appropriate depending on the language that is translated would not fit in the box
Yet for wonders, while they have the same stats and same cost, they went the extra mile to make 10 unique wonder icons. It’s slightls inconsistent.
The thing is, having colourful, ornamented icons helps to make things even more memorable.
For example, to this day, I still remember the UI design of OG AoE 1 quite well despite the game being 25+ years old as depending on the civ you’re playing, the UI looks different:
Egyptians + Temple with all technologies
Greeks + selecting a vill
Age of Noob made a pretty good video on this issue when the Technical Stress Test was on and imo the issues he mentiones are still valid today, even two years later:
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