Totally agree. AoE 4 feels much older and clunky compared to AoE 3 de, not to mention poor graphics and runs poorly need optimized
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Hm, compared to 2 and Myth, 3 is actually already streamlined, probably on a similar level than 4. Economy-wise, you don’t need drop off buildings anymore, there are only 3 resources (+ XP), so overall less economy to take care about.
What may be confusing for a new player to 3 is that food still rots, so you want to push deer (or any other animal depending on the map) with your starting settlers as close to the TC as possible. As a new player you’d probably also get overwhealmed by the natives on the map as you don’t know which native you should go for or how your home city deck should be like despite preferibly only having 2 cards in Age 1.
But I guess the biggest offender in AoE 3 that can confuse people is snaring and I’m glad it’s gone for AoE 4.
That’s fine. 4’s campaign cinematics are superb and the campaigns are a modern take on the AoE 1 style.
I get that.
A good compromise could be giving the effect for free once researching Castle Age, pretty much like the old Royal Heirs effect now applies to Elite Shotel Warriors or how the old Berserkergang effect auto applies to Berserks.
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In some ways yeah, but then things like rot and snaring and all the natives as you say. Also the artificial caps on thi### like towers and ships, the damage resist system, the card system, etc…
EDIT: It’s literally sensoring the word “things” in that context, so silly.
open warcraft 3 the whole game is unintuitive.
open sc2 the whole game is unintuitive.
why game should be intuitive on 100%?
open dota a lot of confusion, with animagic.
intuitive game, where you do no need to learn == boring.
you want to spend hours into the game… but it’s blend.
you find a new “feature” (let’s say quick wall), it’s fixed. wont it be frustration for existed players?
and every new player will eventually become “existed” one.
but particularly on ballistic example:
- there are hard counters, and archers even with missing wil hard counter units
and archers CAN be hardcountered with scirms.
may be you should not fire up their complains, but explain hard counters?
it would be more frustrating to loose starting SC each time on enemy TC with 100% accuracy.
Why your friends did not complain about it?
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That’s an interesting thing that’s definitely not to be underestimated. RTS have the reputation to be some kind of niche, hardcore genre, so streamlining to make things more intuitive is definitely a good step to open the game for new players, however, you always walk on the thin line to over-streamline things.
Imo, while skirmish in AoE 4 is as fine as it is, the campaign gameplay definitely falls under the category “over-streamlined”, like, some missions tell you exactly what to do and some missions rather feel like interactive cutscenes instead of a normal campaign mission. E.g. compare AoE 4’s Hastings with AoE 2’s Hastings. In AoE 2, you not only have Hastings itself, but also Stamford Bridge attached to it and have to come to England first while in AoE 4 you just play the Battle with the 3rd person narrator.
Regarding archers in AoE 2: thanks to AoE Pulse, we know that range openers aren’t the prefered choice among the Elos. Most seem to wait for archers until you have Ballistics (+ Thumb Ring)
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Probably yes and no.
It would be much easier today, imo, to make a cinematic with the exact same level of quality and detail as the '90s and '00s… software-wise, technology-wise, and artistic talent pool-wise. But today’s gamer standards are significantly higher regarding animation quality, cinematic experience, storytelling, voice acting, polygonal detail, texture quality, audio/music, realism, historical accuracy, physics, and everything else. So, I doubt they could get away with having '90s/'00s quality cinematics in a game made in 2023 without the causing a lot of negative comments, sadly.
‘Yes’, easier if all things were equal, but ‘No’ because all things aren’t allowed to be equal two+ decades later. I wish that wasn’t always the case, but amazing graphics and realism have become so important in the gaming world these days, it seems.
I think for certain franchises, like AoE, I’d enjoy the nostalgic vibe of having cinematics for new games be a little rough around the edges. For games that try to graphically mimic reality a lot or “don’t” have an unpolished artistic style that’s synonmyous with their franchise, like Uncharted, though, it’d be a little weird to do that, imo. And the costs associated with making a perfect cinematic today with all the realism, historical/expert consulting, software licenses, and exquisite details would likely cost a fair amount of money, too
It was a rhetorical question.
You seem to think that I am suggesting that a cinematic should be in the style of those years. That was not what I said.
I Never talk about realism. I started talking about cinematics because I think that if previous games have them, why not AOE-4? It’s just a comparison.
I don’t know what to answer to that. As if other games don’t have to deal with this kind of thing.
Also, it’s not that I’m demanding a movie within a game, it’s just that I compare.
Hmm, I thought you were just wanting AoE4 to have cinematics … and were saying if AoE1/2/3 can have cinematics, then why can’t AoE4. Like, rhetorically (paraphrasing): “It is the year 2023 already. Is it really that hard to make cinematics 20+ years after the earlier games did it?”
I was just saying, yeah, I think it is harder 
(especially given the high expectations of gamers of today, and I guess combined with the demands devs put on themselves to take things to new levels)
Sorry if I misinterpreted anything, or sounded like I was suggesting you wanted a particular style of cinematic. I know you were being rhetorical, but embedded within I thought there was a hint of, “How could AoE4 not have them, considering we got them 20+ years ago.” And by no means was I judging. I was just trying to help
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Well, it seems like we both misunderstood each other a bit, but I guess that’s okay. I thought it was all an argument to justify why companies end up making these kind of somewhat stingy and conservative decisions.
Don’t worry. I am aware that you are not judging me.
Yes, the AOE-4 campaigns have good narration and the documentaries are a great complement, but maybe there should have been a story like in AOM or AOE-3. (besides documentaries)
Attached videos of other games because this kind of thing would have been good for AOE-4, after all, casual gamers are the majority of gamers, and other AOE games contain things to make the single player experience more enjoyable. memorable.
This video shows how people liked the SC-2 campaign a lot, and it made some people stay in the game and then jump into competitive and sports.
The bottom line is that a game shouldn’t have campaigns just for the sake of it. It should be a mainstay of the game, even if a lot of people aren’t interested in singleplayer.
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Because the game should be intuitive, pure words from a die-hard fan, that explains years to be able to see the number of villagers, I think.
Just look at the tiwtch ranking and where the RTS genre is, anecdotes like starcraft errors that didn’t give importance to cooperative play, the game had to be free, however former pros like Jimrising live as a streamer LOL, I don’t know what it would be from warcraft without grubby; look at the number of channels they broadcast compared to the most popular ones; aoe2 had the pandemic where people tried it who perhaps never played it but at the end of the pandemic they were in the usual numbers, why? you know that.
Here is a recent video of a controversial strategy, I see that his followers’ own comments call it disgusting, technically I don’t really know the strategy; but I remind those who affirm that patches are only made for the competitive one that the nerf to tower rush was done in an intelligent way that is almost unfeasible in most civilizations, the nerft to the siege is tremendously exaggerated for 1v1, however we adapted thereto; there are still other demands on hotkeys, however they spent time on remappable keys, that those of us who consider the grid efficient, will never remap anything, but for some it is worthless, the work they have done, if they should select the age, with a simple key , to make a building.
They want the game in their own version or it’s worth nothing. The reality is that the game is mostly inclined towards casual players, and yet they don’t appreciate it, that’s why the balance patches take time and also the demands for hotkeys etc.
I could not understand the mess of thoughts and pictures. So, thx ChatGPT for translation.
The writer argues that a game should be intuitive and not require complex explanations from dedicated fans. They point to the popularity of certain games on Twitch and the importance of influential players like Grubby. They also mention a controversial strategy in a recent video and note that balance patches take time due to the demands of both casual and competitive players. The writer suggests that some players want the game to be their own version, but fail to appreciate the efforts of developers to make it accessible to a wider audience.
Is that you mean?
Than yes.
but
-
any AOE game is already more intuitive in comparison SC2 & W3. It’s already balance between intuitive and complex mechanic (which can be ignored by 90% of players).
Proof TheControllerPlayer hit 1700ELO. He is Dave(socaster of T90). He played on xbox Controller before it become mainstream(before xbox release). He compete with keyboard players but manages to be in top5% without any “tricks”.
Extremes do not lead to good. Are there any examples of intuitive RTS, which are more successful than hardcore ones?
should it be simple as “farm simulator”? For my taste - no. -
Grubby does not make w3 alive, sorry, but he moved from w3 to other games. Rarely returning to it wont do difference. There are other people who should be noticed for community supporting.
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Finally, the epilogue of this ********
It’s not a strategy, it’s a disgusting move, and I love it
more praising comments (click)
“It’s not a strategy, it’s a disgusting move, and I love it!”
It’s amazing how watching a Nacho video makes me want to play Age.
After Red Bull disappeared from Age, nowadays he lives on the edge, arriving late to work because of Age… It’s confusing ### ### ### #####aining.
Good game of Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition.
In AoE 3, you can build towers within the range of the urban center. And also, there is a construction limit, maybe to prevent this type of play.
A masterclass of pure strategy.
“Heart the Austrian from La Salada” I burst out laughing, ### ### # ### ## # ##### 
.
However, Nicov was winning, the Advanced to Castle didn’t change the outcome.
Tremendous video Nacho!
Excellent game, thanks for sharing it Nacho, regards!
And for me, the “exaggerated” information strategy is legal, it has always existed in history, many lied that they had a hero to fear among their ranks, that they had underworld soldiers, others that they had many troops, others set up camps with few personnel to make it look like there were hundreds of soldiers, etc.
The comments express enjoyment and enthusiasm for the game and the video.
End of story, no Drama, viewers love this kind of games.
If you just thought a little more, if 48% disapproved of tower rush, and 11% would even remove it from the game, then strategies that you yourself mention are disgusting ### ##### would not be tolerable in aoe4.
The reality is that those from aoe2 are in the aoe4 forum, feeding a thread that claims that aoe4 is less interesting, but not vice versa, those from aoe4 are not in the aoe2 forum, surely that is evidence of which game is who has a future and which game depends on the retirement age of your community.
And for this reason, the ones who reply to your negative criticism are us, but you do not tolerate criticism and censor a video that shows your 95-hour game as an example.
We have also made them notice the peculiarities of their game, but in their fanatical world everything has an excuse and they answer "why should a game be intuitive? It makes me laugh; of course, for a sick RTS fan, of course, a game It shouldn’t be intuitive, and that explains why recently they couldn’t even see the number of villagers in each resource, or have accumulated orders, I think they spat high but it fell right in their faces.
And I notice another strategy that they use is to forget all of the above that has been mentioned and ridicule just for the last example that is given in this thread, I don’t know if he will continue in his fanatical world or you will accept facts that he does not like, or if you’re going to think your game is perfect because it’s perfect for you, then it all makes sense, the 95 hours of gameplay, the excessive micro, disgustingly loved strategies, number of villagers in resources recently, order queue only recently, grid (in definition edition) only recently, it all makes sense 
I don’t want them to censor me, it took me some time to write, so I was going to attach it, I’ll do it in another comment, well, if they both censor me, I didn’t expect less
If that’s so great, why the thumbnail zzz, but it doesn’t matter, I know you will have a justification for everything, I even prophesied some answers like: “that game was unique” and that’s it, no
What company of heroes ? Number 3? That game is dead, another gem killed by professional studio Lelic
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Why is this even a point? 4’s playerbase is just as old as 2’s or 3’s or Myth’s. It’s a new RTS in the style of classic RTS, so the playerbase is generally older.
I mean, just look at the age of each AoE 4 pro player:
I’m sorry, but this sounds more like cherry picking points.
4’s micro is just as excessive as 2’s, the main difference is the removal of archer micro.
What “disgustingly loved strategies” do you refer to? To the Nacho reaction to one of Viper’s videos you posted the other day? Viper never said he was proud of a trick no one knows about, maybe the auto translator did lost context?
Again, vill distribution on resource is a minor thing, as the OG game had this, it just didn’t display on the resource panel.
And also again, Grid is a good starting point, players, however, the more they play, have individual preferences. Some may like to put house on Q, others would like to put it on H for example. There’s a reason why pro players have “my hotkeys” videos.
Hiding a post that was directed at someone who doesn’t even play AoE 2 and was flagged as off topic is not censoring.
The 95 hr game is memorable due to the two players invovled that took that ranked game just a bit too serious. The “longest game(s)” on the other hand are not so memorable.
The 95 hr game was even that memorable that the production team behind NAC 4 included a small easter egg:
& it has an entire website dedicated to it:
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Haahhahah true xD
Haven’t seen AOE4’s teen pro streamers for a long time
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I was not referring to the micro and Viper, I mentioned that the followers of the YouTube channel themselves mentioned Nicov’s strategy as disgusting, but that they still liked it
Wow a new title released 1 month ago beating a remake of an old game released 2 years ago by 600 players. What a feat.
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And that’s an AoE 2 exclusive thing…? I’m pretty sure if there was that one strategy in AoE 4 (such as Mongol TC rush that was popular at launch), 4’s content creators would behave similar.
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