Shouldn’t be too difficult if we take the AoE 3 or 4 system where units are already sorted in Heavy and Light.
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I get where you’re coming from, but I mean strictly physical ‘real’ resources.
AoE 3 only deals with food, wood, coin, and 1 or 2 meta resources designed around the concept of influence that is traded for the equivalent value of food/wood/coin.
The question with a title set in a modern era is what physical real resources would the player focus on gathering.
In a 20th century setting are we mining gold at open veins to translate into money? Are all structures built out of wood? Are tanks made of food? That was more of the question there.
If we do not harvest wood for structures, what replaces it and how does that difference change the ‘feel’ of the game compared to other titles? Wood functions not only as a resource but also as a map obstacle.
Madmax covered it pretty well, I just have reservations because it feels like the identity of AoE revolves around food/wood/gold/stone. For myself, it’s one of the main reasons that AoE 3 and AoM feel the least like AoE (lack of defensive structure resource, typically stone).
Galactic battlegrounds, a star wars game built on the same engine as AoE 2, uses food/carbon/nova/ore. This may have been partially a result of the engine, but it also fits the standard model of AoE resources.
Carbon is harvested from trees, nova is effectively gold, and ore acts as stone. Food remains unchanged.
This has already been answered by other colleagues.
Maybe it’s difficult for you to understand. Because you don’t like the Ancient Age, then everything related to it must be bad.
And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Everyone has their own personal preferences.
For example, I don’t like World War I. I think it would be too boring and I certainly wouldn’t buy it. But I know there are people who like it. So that’s okay.
You shouldn’t have wasted time posting this.
It’s clear that you don’t understand how military units from the Ancient Age work.
First thing you need to understand…
The Ancient Age and the Middle Ages are different periods, with different technologies and various weapons and armor of different qualities. Remembering that the ancient era includes a much larger period in centuries, with a much greater diversity of technologies (use of copper, bronze, iron, and steel, in addition to the use of leather and other artifacts), it also has a much larger number of civilizations, dynasties, and empires.
It is logical that in ancient times we have everything we need:
- Light cavalry (They could be equipped with a shield, use a sword, but could also use a spear and even an axe)
- Heavy cavalry (Cataphracts and other types of armor according to the region and technology of the time, and could use shields, swords, and spears)
- Camels (their armor could vary)
- War elephants (usually had warriors with large spears on their backs. Their armor varied according to the civilization, and could use leather or metal armor)
- War chariots (light version, 2 horses, a driver and an archer)
- Heavy war chariots (usually used 4 horses)
- War dogs (they were widely used by some civilizations)
- Light infantry (usually used swords, but the shapes varied greatly and used shields. They hardly wore armor or sometimes leather armor. However, they could also use axes depending on the civilization)
- Heavy infantry (usually used swords and armor appropriate to their period, but could also use axes depending on the civilization)
- Spearmen with short spears
- Spearmen with short spears and shields (they could wear heavy armor from their time. Generally, this type of spearman was practically an elite warrior, who could easily defeat lights infantrys)
- Spearmen with enormous spears, 5 to 7 meters long, and could also use shields (The Phalangists. They were very powerful when in formation and practically unstoppable when facing their enemies head-on).
- Use of Two-handed weapons (a few civilizations used them, ranging from swords, clubs, axes, and weapons resembling scythes “Rhomphaia/Falx”)
- Archers
- Horse Archer
- Sling
- Crossbow (only some civilizations)
- Throwing axe
- Throwing spear (throws spears at a distance, examples: Javelin, Pilus, Phalarica, Darts, and so on)
- Horse that throws spears/darts
- Archer elephant (could also be an elephant that throws javelins)
- Catapula with different ammunition (they could fire everything from stones to beehives and baskets with poisonous snakes)
- Ballista
- Different battering rams (which could be simple battering rams or even battering rams that resembled vehicles, as they even had a tower with an archer included)
- There were also some special siege weapons. The Romans generally used many of them (they could fire several darts at a distance).
- Monks? Religious elders? (There were those too)
I’d like to know where the problem lies?
The ancient era has everything it needs to make a “rock vs. paper vs. scissors” system work.
Remember that in the Middle Ages, some civilizations never used chainmail or iron armor, exemple: the Mayans, Incas, Aztecs, and some African and South Indian civilizations (Dravidians), and there must have been others in regions with less access to important trades. If in the Middle Ages some civilizations were more backward than others, obviously this was also true in ancient times. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
If you’re still having trouble understanding, I recommend playing the games:
- Total War: ROME II - Emperor Edition
- Strategos
Suggestions and Ideas
I think in this case, we should look at what has already been done and used in Rise of Nations…
In the case of resources, I would do the same as in Age of Empires, but changing the function of use of some.
Let’s assume there would be 5 resources (just more one additional resource):
- Food (from farms, hunting, or fishing)
- Wood (from cutting wood, used to build cities and farms and make charcoal)
- Iron Ore (replaces gold)
- Oil (oil is widely used by ALL types of vehicles, aircraft, and ships [Note: except for anti-aircraft and also for combat jeeps and small boats]. This resource is infinite, but it is scattered across the map, and players must fight to see who can own and hold the most oil wells. This will be decisive for victory or defeat)
- Money (this resource can be earned through taxes and also in industrialization factories, which convert some types of primary resources into processed and industrialized resources, thus generating money. Perhaps a truck could collect the resource from the factory and take it to your command center to generate money. Factories could convert farm food into industrialized food, and Wood would be converted into coal, and oil converted to plastic, and iron ore converted to steel)
Based on Rise of Nations, the production costs of Units, it would be like this:
-
Light vehicles: food + oil
-
Heavy vehicles: iron ore + oil
-
Light infantry: food + wood or food + money
-
Heavy infantry: food + iron ore or money + iron ore
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Heavy artillery: iron ore + oil
-
Anti-aircraft: food + money
-
Combat jeeps: food + money
-
Fighter planes, helicopters, and bombers: money + oil
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Heavy warships: iron ore + oil
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Submarines, aircraft carriers, and small ships: money + oil
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Small boats: food + money
1 The problem is, a lot of siege engines/ships, were only greek or roman thing. So either we have a less historical accurate game than AoE2, or massive balance , variety and depth issues.
2 For resources we had already solution in other games.
Empire Earth : Food, Wood, Gold and Stone are the main resources, while the special resources are the Tin, Iron, Saltpeter, Oil and Uranium.
Rise of Nations : Food, Timber, Metal ( Classical Age onward), Oil ( Industrial Age onward), Wealth, Knowledge
Cossacks Wood, Food, Stone, Gold, Iron, Coal
still its hard to make there unit variety between napoleon and ww2
there is a reason why AoE2 did outlive all competition.
3 In my opinion, the only feasible solution to translate Age of Empires gameplay to WW1/WW2/WW3 would be to make some kind of Age of Fiction. Like Mix Red Alert, with Wolfenstein, Iron Harvest, Tesla and Steampunk. We would need to mix historical with fictional units.
I don’t know if I understood you… because Google Translate is confused.
But, if you’re saying that the best siege weapons, as well as the best ships, were only used by the Romans and Greeks…
and that AoE2 is a historically accurate and correct game, because ALL civilizations had EVERYTHING.
I’m sorry to inform you, only now, but Age of Empires 2 is not a medieval simulator and has several historical inaccuracies in precisely the same items you mentioned for the ancient era. What a coincidence, right?
Sorry to break it to you… but your dream just turned into a nightmare, rsrsrsrs.
AoE2 is full of errors when it comes to siege weapons and also ships! It should be remembered that AoE2 is not an accurate simulator of the medieval age.
AoE2 attempts to give civilizations realistic characteristics in the following areas: unique bonuses, unique upgrades, unique units, regional units, and gunpowder units. It also includes blacksmithing and economy upgrades, all to simulate real-life performance… however, siege units and ships are extremely inaccurate.
And the reason for this is quite obvious! It’s related to game balance.
Basically, all civilizations have catapults, trebuchets, and ballistas, in addition to having virtually all the same ship types, and all civilizations strive to have the “skirmisher.” However, in real life, many civilizations never had a single trebuchet or ballista, or catapult, or there is no record of the use of “skirmishers,” fireships, or galleons, or bomb ships.
So, obviously, minimally functional balance is much more important than a game that 100% simulates real life.
Obviously, a new game focused on the ancient era will use the same basic balance already used in AoE2 and AoE4, regarding “common-use” units in the Siege Workshops and Docks. I’m sorry to break this to you. But you should already know this.
People need to understand that it’s a game. Not an accurate simulator.
I remember I had friends who believed that Age of Empires 1 was correct, and for them, the civilizations of the ancient era hadn’t figured out how to make gates and that there weren’t different types of cavalry, that everything was the same and without gates in civilizations… That only in the medieval era they discovered how to make gates and make different cavalries… Look what Age of Empires 1 did to some people’s heads… it’s sad… very sad…
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So AoE5 would be AoE2 Chronicles?
Or Export for Asian Civs
Right, export is a tangible measure international trade.
It is not effectively a ‘real’ resource.
If anything, it represents the wood/food/coin gathered and sent to other nations.
I understand that it exists as a game resource, like xp, but I feel like you’re missing the point of what I was saying. If all age games reference food/wood/gold/(and sometimes stone), then what would we see in the modern era?
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I can’t answer that.
No one knows which path the developers chose, and they are currently beginning their production and development work. If we’re lucky, they might reveal the chosen time period for AoE5 in 2027.
For now, we can only suggest what it could be…
For AoE5, we have the following possible themes:
- Ancient Age, covering 10,000 or 15,000 years of human history (the eras would be: Stone Age, Tool Age, Bronze Age, Iron/Steel Age)
- Classical Age (beginning in the 8th century BC and ending in the 5th century AD). The early period dates back to the beginning of the construction of the first cities of human civilization, and it continued to evolve throughout the ages, until the fall of Rome.
- Ancient Age, covering 1,000 years of history (it would be similar to AoE2 Chronicles, but with its differences. It would begin in the 5th century BC and end in the 5th century AD with the fall of Rome)
- High Middle Ages (despite being a medieval game, it would be a period focused on the High Middle Ages, starting in the 5th century and ending in the 10th century)
- New AoE focused on the entire medieval period (starting in the 5th century and ending in the 15th century, or ending in the 16th century for an additional Technological and early colonial expansions)
- Modern Age + Victorian Age (it would be a new AoE3, but broader, starting in the 15th century and ending in the early 20th century)
- AoE focused entirely on the World War I.
- Contemporary Age only of the 20th century (it would start in the 20th century and would pass to World War I, World War II, and end in the Cold War)
- Contemporary Age (it would portray the entire 20th century and end in the 21st century, today. This AoE would probably need to have five ages of evolution to be well represented).
- Futuristic Age (it would start in the current 21st century and end in the very distant future… or it would start in the distant future and evolve from there, exploring other planets and alien races)
Place your bets
Now just roll the roulette wheel and see who will emerge as the winner, as chosen by the developers… rsrsrsrs
I’ll make a suggestion about what resources could be introduced in the Modern Age and Victorian Age (basically, it would be a new AoE3, but broader).
Initial research for development, and then the feature suggestions at the end of this post :
In the Modern Age (1453-1789):
Wars were primarily driven by “gunpowder and steel,” which drove the manufacture of new firearms and shipbuilding. The evolution of mass production of these technologies, combined with resource exploitation and complex supply logistics, transformed the nature of conflicts.
Black powder in the Modern Age: A mixture of coal, sulfur, and saltpeter (potassium nitrate), gunpowder was the fundamental weapon. It allowed the progressive replacement of bladed weapons (swords, spears) with projectile weapons.
In the Victorian Era (1837-1901):
Steel: Steel replaced iron on a large scale in armaments production, making cannons, rifles, and warships more resistant.
Breech-loading rifles: The ability to reload the weapon from the rear (breech) allowed soldiers to fire faster and from a prone position, improving accuracy.
Modern artillery: Cannons with greater range and accuracy, using explosive and shrapnel projectiles, dominated the battlefields.
Machine guns: Weapons like the Gatling gun emerged, offering devastating firepower against enemy infantry.
Steam-powered and armored warships: Steam propulsion allowed larger and faster ships to move. The addition of iron armor made them more resistant to artillery attacks.
SUGGESTIONS: Resources for the Modern Age + Victorian Age (I would add some new ones):
- Food: farming, hunting, and fishing. Used by a large part of the army.
- Wood: a resource used for buildings and some light units in your army.
- Sulfur: development of black powder. Basically, it will be a resource widely used to manufacture units with gunpowder weapons.
- Iron Ore: Iron and Steel Manufacturing. It will be used to fund the manufacture of units that use steel/iron in their armor or that use steel/iron in large quantities, such as armored soldiers and armored horses, large cannons and artillery, and any unit that uses heavy armor, such as elephants with iron/steel plates and steam-powered armored ships and Machine guns.
- Stone: It would also be used to build walls, towers, and castles/fortresses.
- Coal: It is not a harvestable resource. However, you acquire coal in a new building, where you can convert/burn wood to make charcoal. It will be used, in part, to fund Gunpowder Upgrades and also to manufacture powerful steam-powered armored ships. It can also be used in the market to exchange for sulfur.
—> Note: Gold no longer exists. It would be replaced by Sulfur and Iron Ore.
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It is by all means a real resource. You gather it and spend it like any resource, and in a continuous way, so it is more of a resource than xp (which is spent discretely).
If Jeanne d’Arc can be a “civ”, Jeanne herself can wield a huge hand cannon on horseback, Vikings can be Byzantine, gilded giants can fight alongside human beings, free mods can be copy pasted as paid contents, and a roguelike mode is the sp content everyone wants, in a historical age game, why can’t any other resource qualify in a historical age game? That is the tiniest violation ever
Also remember that nobody ever promised an age game has to have food/wood/gold just like nobody ever promised DLCs with full civs, campaigns or historical grounding.
Export is pretty much collected like Olive Oil for Byzantines. You can additionally adjust the amount of Export that’s being collected.
3 Likes
This period alone deserves its own game. It spanned more than 2,000 years. Even so, it will have anachronisms.
In AOE-3, the stone wouldn’t make sense, as the game’s final stages are set in the industrial era. Removing it was a good idea.
If I could add a new resource, it would be hydrocarbons or fuel, which would include coal, petroleum, and whale oil. University and fourth European resource (Probabilities and possibilities)
We use several kinds of stone in the modern era. For example, concrete is made from aggregate (sand/crushed stone), limestone, and ash.
In AoE defensive buildings and techs use stone as a resource. This is reflected in their construction. In AoE 3 you use wood and gold or a home city card to construct forts. They still have copius amounts of stone on their model. The most glaring example in AoE 3 is the Maya fort:
It’s obviously possible to have defensive structures without stone as a resource, but what it effectively does is bring the game away from the model established by most games in the series.
That’s why the premise of the question is:
If you change the resources from Food/Wood/Gold/Stone how will that game differ from other Age of Empires games?
If the question prompted in the OP is the focus:
Do these new resources function in tandem with new mechanics? What are the benefits or potential pitfalls that come with it?
It was meant more as a conversational prompt, with AoE 3 being an example of how experimentation with the standard model makes it unique, but also less recognizable as an AoE title.
Sulfur, oil, and ore for metal make sense considering the focus on machines and gunpowder. I’m skeptical about how it would feel, since Age of Empires titles tend to have a ‘way back when’ kind of vibe, but it helps create a defined picture on what kind of economy would be there.
So you (pretend you) want “discussion” and conveniently ignore every evidence already presented against you, and you accuse people for not discussing with you:
- AOM already made that experimentation with the “standard model”. It’s interesting how you accidentally skipped it maybe because WE’s marketing on AOM is still ongoing?
- All the “experimental” resources in AOE3 do not play any more differently than the olive oil in the “standard” AOE4
- There had been no promise that the series will always have the same four resources just like there had been no promise of full civs, historical designs or campaigns.
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Sandy Petersen shares his thoughts on the removal of stone as a resource in AoE3.
Don’t know why the link isn’t working correctly. Here’s what he said:
*When we designed the sequels to original Age of Empires, we set as a goal that for every new subsystem or resource, we would eliminate one old one, so that the game wouldn’t become unplayably complex. We knew that the game would STILL become more complex over time, but felt that having this as a goal would at least ease matters.
This is why, for instance, Age III doesn’t have Stone as a resource, replacing it with Fame. We got SO MUCH FLAK for this. People saying crap like “How can you build cathedrals without stone?” I thought it was idiotic. What nation EVER in the world’s history has had a “stone” shortage. What nation stockpiles and hoards “stone”. Sure it was useful in the STONE AGE but by the time of Age 3 everyone knew how to trivially get all the stone they wanted. I bet you can tell this is still a sore point with me.
Anyway, replacing features instead of just always adding them is a good goal to have IMO.*
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They could build weapons without metal since AOE1.
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If there were one of these that are RTS like Age of Empires, at this point like saying AoE IV is useless because there is already Crusader Kings
There is Age of Empires 1 but unfortunately it is very old, I trust in Chronicles…