University and fourth European resource (Probabilities and possibilities)

Hello, I always wanted to talk about this and I think it deserves a dedicated forum. Although these things are never present in the game, it is an interesting topic and a very open discussion. It is worth considering the possibilities of these mechanics that should have been incorporated into the game throughout its life so that they could be balanced and adapted appropriately, but sadly they never happened.

However I think that in the future a deeper rework could be done to make these new features fit properly and so I want to propose what they could potentially be like and I want to see what you think and propose about it.

I’m aware that this would add to the complexity of the game, but personally it doesn’t bother me. I think we can readjust.

If they consider that this is too much for Europeans, I would propose to compensate for other civilizations with emblematic buildings. For example, the Aztecs and the Incas could build temples that would give them news improvements.

I am also enthusiastic and believe that in the future we could receive an sequel of AOE inspired in AOE-3 where these kinds of features could be included properly from the game’s creation and not abruptly in the future.

I clarify that this is not a request to implement in the game, but a concept to consider.

Without further ado let’s get started.


University

image

A building that is present in some modifications such as ‘Napoleonic era’. It is a building present in the late game with powerful technologies and units.

I will propose some technologies that could be present in this building:


Forestry

  • Allows you to create a lumber crop in exchange for 1500 of each resource. Once planted, villagers will be able to harvest 10,000 wood from it. (Once exhausted you can re-create)

The Leading Role of German Forestry:

Summary

Toward Industrial Silviculture
A great development of forestry occurred in the nineteenth century, when some
important German foresters, particularly H. Cotta, G.L. Hartig, and C. Hundesagen, had
a decisive influence on the progress of forestry management, silviculture, economics,
and statistics or mensuration. They published several books and articles that were
translated into other languages, such as Heinrich Cotta’s Principles of Forestry Science,
a sort of encyclopedia that was used as a textbook in many forestry schools and
university courses of the period. Forestry became well developed and was organized
into several branches: silviculture, protection, technology, management, watershed
control, and forest mensuration and assessment, to list the main ones.
Compared to the eighteenth century, when forestry was limited to the study of better
ways of ensuring natural regeneration or selectively cutting stands in shelter wood
systems, forestry from the middle of the nineteenth century strongly favored the
economic approach to attaining the maximum forest rent. Martin Faustmann published
an elegant method of calculating this in 1849 that envisaged an infinite series of
rotations of the same length. M.R. Pressler developed its application to silvicultural
decisions in 1860. The creation of pure, even-aged conifer stands in the place of mixed
broadleaf stands, area regulation, a balanced distribution of age classes in the normal
forest ideal, a definite rotation length, and the search for a maximum, annual constant
yield, became the canons of forest management.


Aquaculture

  • You will receive a shoal at the Naval Meeting Point with 10,000 foods in exchange for 1,200 food and 1,200 coins. In maps without a destination of naval metropolis, you will see a building that becomes a fish farm pool where you can work infinitely to obtain food from fish, but some villagers can only work.
Summary

Freshwater fish farming was further developed during the Renaissance. Several treatises were published, providing details on pond construction and management techniques, the choice of species to farm, their diseases and their diet. Carp dominated the artificial ponds of Eastern Europe. Emperor Charles IV ordered many such ponds to be built in Bohemia, what is now the westernmost region of the Czech Republic.

Artificial breeding was discovered in Germany during the Enlightenment, but it was not until the 19th century, an era of rapid industrialisation, that anyone paid much attention to it. In a hundred years, industry changed the European landscape. Pollution caused fish populations to diminish and dams and irrigation canals obstructed the migratory paths of some species, such as salmon. To combat this dramatic decline, artificial breeding research focused on trout farming, and researchers managed to master all stages of the process, from fertilisation to egg storage and transportation, pond farming and releasing fish into the wild. Hatcheries appeared all over the West and, in the 1860s, trout and other salmonids colonised rivers around the world, in the United States, India, New Zealand and even Japan, one of the first producers of edible seaweed.


Telegraph

image

  • Unlocks an additional trade route upgrade (Telegraph). Shipments arrive faster and cost less experience depending on the TP you control (-5% experience/time for route TP).

  • This improvement affects all trade routes on the map, so it can be investigated by other civilizations that do not have a university. For example, the Aztecs could investigate it in a trade route TP or they will simply benefit if they are on the same route improved by the opposing team.

  • It would be interesting a visual change in the commercial routes where a network of cables parallel to the railway appears and I think that this can be applied currently in the game.

Summary

Telegraphy is the long-distance transmission of messages where the sender uses symbolic codes, known to the recipient, rather than a physical exchange of an object bearing the message. Thus flag semaphore is a method of telegraphy, whereas pigeon post is not. Ancient signalling systems, although sometimes quite extensive and sophisticated as in China, were generally not capable of transmitting arbitrary text messages. Possible messages were fixed and predetermined and such systems are thus not true telegraphs.


Vets

image

  • ‘Pet’ and cavalry type units cost 10% less, and passively heal over time when not in combat (even if active).

  • Cattle are 25% cheaper, increase their fattening cap by 10% (the fattening time does not increase despite increasing the cap). Also fattening 20% faster.

Summary

By Harry Schenawolf , author of the Shades of Liberty Series about African American soldiers in the American Revolution. Veterinary medicine owes much to mankind’s infatuation with the horse that helped finance and advance its development from amateur status to scientific discovery. It also benefited from strides in human medicine, in sorts, becoming a sister that was brought along through new methods of exploratory dissection and diagnostic expertise leading to the evolution of medicines and their use in cures. However, schools that trained doctors to treat humans were established long before institutions that advanced the study of animal care. The first schools for vets did not appear until the 18ths century in Europe and not in America until the later part of the 19th century. Before then, animal care had remained in the realm of the amateur. It was considered an expected chore best administrated by the farmer, horse breeder, or often illiterate ‘farriers’ (for horses) or ‘cow leeches’ (for other livestock). These were often local farmers who, after years of experience, decided they could make extra wages by hiring themselves out as ‘experts’ in animal care. Anyone could declare themselves a farrier which too often led to ‘quacks’ and conmen convincing farmers and even noblemen with large stables of horses that they knew best. As to colonial America, the first true vet, an immigrant from Prussia, did not set up shop until 1817. Prior to then, all the needs of livestock was handled by the aforementioned farriers or cow leeches.


Marine chronometer

  • Boats with higher speed and visual field. Ships, troops and supplies from the metropolis arrive faster. In addition, naval/river trade routes give 20% more resources.
Summary

A marine chronometer is a precision timepiece that is carried on a ship and employed in the determination of the ship’s position by celestial navigation. It is used to determine longitude by comparing Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), or in the modern world its successor Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), and the time at the current location found from observations of celestial bodies. When first developed in the 18th century, it was a major technical achievement, as accurate knowledge of the time over a long sea voyage was vital for effective navigation, lacking electronic or communications aids. The first true chronometer was the life work of one man, John Harrison, spanning 31 years of persistent experimentation and testing that revolutionized naval (and later aerial) navigation and enabling the Age of Discovery and Colonialism to accelerate.

The term chronometer was coined from the Greek words χρόνος (chronos) (meaning time) and meter (meaning measure) in 1713 by the English cleric and scientist William Derham.[1] It has recently become more commonly used to describe watches tested and certified to meet certain precision standards.


Vaccine against smallpox.

  • Land units (except artillery) with 5% more resistance points.

A Brief History of Vaccination.


Dual purpose cattle

  • Now your villagers will be able to extract resources from cattle without having to sacrifice them, in exchange for a periodic reinvestment of resources. Milk (food) from cows and the like, and wool (coins) from sheep and the like.

In this forum, which I am sure many already know, I talk about this in a more dedicated way: [Suggestion--rework] 🐄 <Double Purpose Cattle of Europe> 🐑

This is a gameplay feature that I would like to see more expanded at some point.

Summary

Dual-purpose cattle systems (DPS) are defined as those where milk and meat are produced simultaneously, cows are partially milked, the residual milk is consumed by their calves, feed is mainly based on grazing


I could expand the list even further, but it would be very long, since an enormous amount of discoveries and inventions took place at this time.

However, this building could be used to assign and reclassify existing things, for example:

The cards that unlock surgeons
image image

The hot air balloon.
image

Medicine.
image

Livestock cards:
image image

Many more things could fit here, but I leave it to the imagination of each person.

If Europeans ever have access to universities, the imperial-era politician ‘The Inventor’ could give a couple of exclusive upgrades to each civilization.

image



4th European resource

What could be and how it works or would be implemented?. This feature is even more likely that it never happens at some point in the game, but as I said at the beginning, it is only to see how it would work if it was implemented. I just like to speculate.

Currently many civilizations have a fourth resource:

Pre-Columbian civilizations (Plaza) It could be said that it is a council.
Asian civilizations (export)
African Civilizations (influence) A kind of local African currency.

But European and postcolonial civilizations do not have this resource, although they do not need it either. However, post-colonial civilizations (United States and Mexico) have federal cards that could be said to fulfill this role. If Mexico and the United States ever have a fourth resource, they would be very complex to manage, but on the other hand, it is not so unreasonable to think about it.

In my little knowledge in this regard, I will propose what kind of concepts could work as a fourth European resource:


Politicians

The politicians who are unlocking as you advance age give you a passive bonus, so in total 4 passive bonuses. These passive bonuses will be available in the Capitol from age V, and you can only use one at a time (1/4). These bonuses would consume coins and experience.

For example:


I choose the ‘the naturalist’ politician. He makes the resources extracted from natural resources, livestock and crops obtain faster.

image
The Admiral of the Ocean Sea Increase caravel limit by +1 and ships have 5% more attack.

These functions are similar to the Japanese gold pavilion, or the Community Square of Pre -Columbian civilizations.

It could be a good way to carry out a way of making politicians more interesting as it is mentions here: Update Politicians to include underutilized game mechanics


“Metropolis in reverse”

I could simulate a situation where instead of receiving support from your main city, you get benefits from other colonies that would make sense in real life. For example:

You get a building similar to the embassy, here you can choose 1/4 options, and you can access technologies and resources from that distant colony. It could be a system similar to the Imperial Council of Ottomans in AOE-4 with an isolated progression system to conventional experience.

It could function as a kind of knowledge exchange between regions, for example:

When making alliance with a local population, the “distant colonies” will give you knowledge of the lands in which they are at that time, for example the Ottoman civilization obtains an improvement of the African natives, for each improvement investigated with a real house. Investigating these technologies would consume some resource such as ‘regional prestige’ or something like that. This resource is obtained when building TP on commercial route and TP of local populations, but more of the native TP is obtained.


Spices

image
I don’t know how I could work. It could work similar to the export of Asians, where Europeans exchange spices in exchange for Asian technologies and troops. It is obtained by commercial routes, native TP (except real houses), coffee crops, cocoa, etc. (Implication of new types of culture).

For example, Ottomans could obtain Indian zamburaks, the Dutch could obtain the samurais and Ashigarus, etc.


Hydrocarbons

image

It could be a strategic resource that Europeans could extract to carry out industrial progress. It would be an exclusive resource of these civilizations, and you would get these resources through trade and special constructions. The only resource that I think could work for this new resource would be whales (although I don’t know). This resource would be represented by: carbon, whales and oil.

It could work to improve the commercial route to ‘iron horse’, make improvements in arsenal and make factories more productive. It would serve to build special warships such as dreadnought.


Science

image

Here I could fit the university. You get research points by having engineers and/or scientists that are guided in Universidad.

Technologies in university cost research points, more research points can be opposed when investing coins/experience in university. University In addition to the available technologies, they have some passive bonuses that consume research points. What could these passive bonifcics be?:

Botanica: More productive crops.
Engineering: more resistant buildings and ships.
Medicine: more resistant earth units.
Geology: The University generates ‘gold mines’ carts passively, and reveals all the mines of the map. Improved extraction 5% of mines.


As they could see it would be too complex to implement, but I feel it is worth talking about this.

What do you think of the university?
What do you think of the fourth Europero resource?
What could be the fourth European resource and what role would play?

I am curious to know what they think so I will do a survey:

Would you like to build universities?

  • Yes. Assuming that it will be balanced.
  • No. It is too much and the game is fine like this.

0 voters

Would you like a fourth European resource?

  • Yes. He needed a long time ago.
  • No. Too complex and also is not necessary.

0 voters

13 Likes

I really love this idea :heart_eyes:

3 Likes

Yes. Too bad it is so unlikely that it happens one day. A new game inspired by AOE-3 would be needed.

Yes i know but the university build use reference for reference Cossacks 3’s academy and Napoleon era’s Research mechanism

This is honestly really cool. Love the effort :slight_smile:

8 Likes

Your ideas would be perfect to implement with the new European DLC - my suggestion is Baltic Sea DLC: Danes & Prussians civs.

4 Likes

I am sure you meant Poles! Europe without Poles is empty on the map.

6 Likes

I’m Polish, and I didn’t mean Poles :wink:

Poles definitely do not fit in with Western European powers, because the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was too backward compared to Western Europe. The Romantics call Poland the bastion of Christianity and the frontier of Western civilization, but the fact is that Poland was not part of Western civilization. The early modern Poland is closer to the Russians in terms of civilization than any Western civilizations, even though it is a Catholic country.

Poles civ, if they were to appear in AoE 3, would be either alone or in tandem with Ruthenians civ (or another name for this civ - Ukrainians or Cossacks) and potentialy with also Tatars civ. With the addition of the Poles civ, there should be an update of the Russians civ and the creation of an Eastern European Architectural Set.

Polish civs paired with Danes and Prussians civs just don’t fit! Poles, Ruthenians and Russian civs would perfectly fit together in an Eastern European Architectural Set. You can also give these civs some common things.

I once created a topic about the concept of creating an Eastern European DLC:

5 Likes

This is utterly nonsense. Ottomans are Europeans so are Poles. You are just overthinking because you are Polish. None of the European civilizations will be treated different than each other gameplay-wise so any European civ can be combined with any civ. If you add Danes within the Baltic sea, so Poles can be there without any doubt. And they will use Eastern European building set since they are eastern Europeans.

I really dont know from where you got the impression of Western European focus here? You suggested Baltic DLC yourself.

1 Like

But the Danes and Prussians were more focused on the Baltic than the Poles. Poland had very limited access to the Baltic Sea. In fact, it had only one significant port - Gdańsk, which was dominated by the Germans who were former inhabitants of the Teutonic Order, i.e. Prussians :wink:

The Poles just fit the DLC about Eastern Europe better. It is enough to know the history and polish culture.

like the poles the Prussians never really had a navy.

also you are just using a rather late map, take this from 1600 for example:

image

6 Likes

I wish I could share your optimism but Danes and Poles DLC together is your only shot. I don’t think that there will any other DLC than that, especially specifically for the Eastern European.

Also as Jonas shared the map, 17th century is the peak period for the PLC and this is how a game should take a civ into consideration.

3 Likes

The capitol has the university function of AoE II, we dont need another building, some of the techs are interessting though, so I rather have them added to the Capitol.

It doesnt show the fiefdom of Prussia though nor the Duchy of Courland (although not entirely sure if it already existed)

Also it shows Wallachia owning Transalvania??

1 Like

[quote=“jonasnee4671, post:18, topic:220467”]
like the poles the Prussians never really had a navy.
[/quote

I was suggesting geographical location, not navy. Prussia is therefore definitely more Baltic than PLC (remembering that Livonia was a vassal, so it was not part of the PLC).

This is a horribly inaccurate map - vassal lands and lands occupied during the war (with Russia) are marked as part of the PLC.

Prussians is a definitely better candidate for brand new civ than poor PLC!

obraz

xDDDDDD

German Prussians arent Baltic.

Also if you look at your own map posted its obvious Poland owns more Baltic territory then Prussia.

And how is this an indicator? France was occupied after Napoleonic Wars, so France shouldnt have been added?

2 Likes

I disagree, Poland was distinct from western Europe, but not more comparable to Russia. Russia developed under Mongol occupation and was always highly autocratic. Poland was so democratic and decentralized it couldn’t stand up to its aggressive and autocratic neighbours. I’d say it was pretty comparable with its neighbours like Hungary. Poland also played a huge role in the French revolution and Napoleonic wars so it was heavily involved with western Europe at that point.

I feel like the only realistic options for remaining European civs are Poles, Danes, and Prussians. Peoples like Ukrainians, Hungarians, Romanians, Croats/Serbs, and Greeks are better represented as options for revolutions, and Tatars are adequately represented in the Tengri and Jagiellon settlements. As far as central Asia goes, Uzbeks are a more reasonable option than Tatars.

But this is getting pretty off topic from the idea of universities.

3 Likes

I like that concept and wanna offer another approach. See, a huge thing was that europe had the industrial revolution sooner and than asian/american the end results of developing better guns/industry is represented via the (advanced) arsenal and factories. Thing is the basic cause factor for why the technologies developed so differently isn’t really all that obvious in the european civs and that might be a good place to add a fourth resource for the boomer civs.

Bit o’ background is that europe while asia got gunpowder before europe, primitive guns were so shit against what they needed to fight (mongols) that they had no time to actually develop it - investing in better cavalry and fortifications instead. In europe on the other hand, they were mostly fighting each other and had a real need for something to punch through plate armor.

To that end, europe developed its military around gunpowder and that rippled into an economy/industry specialized to developing gunpowder armies. Specifically, they used the crapton of mills they had to refine the chinese black powder into a much stronger form that had guns really take off and also allowed them to produce the better powder in very large quintinites. The rest is normal history; arms race with neighbors, trade, money, etc,

They key takeaway here is that the (number of) mills that were historically the most relevant thing for the rise of gunpowder empires because they allowed europe to go through a mini - industrial revolution before the actual industrial revolution.

So, I propose a fourth resource for Europeans civs: Industry (name pending). Production buildings, mills, arsenals, factories and vils working on non-natural resources, and working fishing boats give a static industry score which unlocks production and technology related bonuses:

  • At the base tier, the cost for mills is reduced by 15%.

  • Increasing industry score initially unlocks discounts to the certain technologies - arsenal techs and upgrades for gunpowder (musk/skirm/goon/grens/cannon) units have a discount applied (-10% cost) at the first tier.

  • At the next tier, the speed of all research is increased (+20% faster) and bonuses from the previous tier are amplified (-15% cost).

  • At the next tier the production speed of gunpowder units is increased (+20% faster) and the previous bonuses are amplified (+30% tech speed, -20% cost). This applies to the train time of heavy artillery from factories.

Now, the idea is to add a new perk to highlight a key difference that caused things to be what they were. As such, there are some specifics that need to be considered for the Russians, Ottomans. The first two had an awkward geographic position that sandwiched them between asian problems (mongols) and european problems (armor/guns) and they had to keep up with both - that did impact their development to a point I’d think it’d be worth reflecting. The loss for them is that they get reduced effects from the Industry bonuses and dont have any extra perk for mills. But there were things gained for having to adapt to Mongol shenanagins which can be reflected by having the industry passive bonuses apply to their medivial units too - melee infantry/cav and archers benefit from the Industry boosts and livestock pens are improved (100 wood and train animals at a 25% discount).

Numbers are just for concept, didnt really think too much about balance atm. The summary is that a fourth resource that simulates a mini industrial revolution centered around chains of production - with the first step being mills, escalating to arsenals/military buildings, and finally into factories - ultimately driving the creation and faster evolution of the OG gunpowder empires.

4 Likes

Bonjour, en fait vous proposez une espèce de jauge à remplir avec industrie, pourquoi ne pas en faire une ressource à dépenser aussi ? :slight_smile:

2 Likes