AoM: Retold Beta Feedback

Super exciting stuff! I had a blast getting to play this weekend. I really hope that the bugs can be squashed in the remaining time.

The Good:

  • Played really smoothly, and the units/buildings look fantastic. It feels great and the balance changes are exciting. I experienced relatively few bugs during my time.
  • The OST is a simple upgrade of the original tracks, just a treat and gem.

The Bad:

  • Crashes mid-game ruined some otherwise good experiences.
  • Sound design is clippy and buggy, with some sounds balanced incorrectly (too loud or too soft), or not playing properly. This is most noticeable in the campaign cut-scenes, where dialogue lines would cut each other off. There doesn’t seem to be a separate setting to change the volume voice lines and other sounds separately, like there is in other Age games.
  • The UI/UX is buggy. I may not like the look, but the real problem is how hitting very common keys like enter, shift, or control would cause the menus to shift between desktop/console modes seemingly at random, and cause navigating them to be a messy and unintuitive process. I’m assuming this is an artifact of having it ready to play on multiple platforms at launch.
  • Hitting escape to deselect units instead immediately opens up the menu, which is not in line with the other Age titles–it will be a hard habit to unlearn.

The Ugly:

  • The portrait art. I hope the overwhelming response to how unprofessional these look inspires a proper response from the team. I understand the claim is that these are not AI-generated, but if so the artists need to at least do a better job than an AI generator. There are multiple errors in each portrait, and the more you look at them the more you find. It’s a real shame, and something I think everyone is looking forward to modding out of the game if it’s not changes.
  • Similarly, I really hate the giant portraits showing up in the cut-scenes. They distract from the action happening with these beautiful new models, and frankly are not my cup of tea art-style wise. I would appreciate an option to turn them off.
10 Likes

I second the giant portraits in the campaign. I would prefer those to be gone

2 Likes

The god portraits could be better, I agree. Appart from weird anatomy (Zeus having two sets of ribs on top of one another, Prometheus having four fingers, etc) they are mostly mythologically accurate, as far as I can tell. Tho the godesses, for the most part, seem to be rather average looking. In mythology, they were mentioned as superhumanly beautiful. Tho that is a minor complaint.
Sobek replacing Hathor is a positive change, as far as I’m concerned. No idea what’s gonna happen with him in the legacy portrait pack. Will he just get the Hathor portrait, with his name and codex entry remaining unchanged?

The Gaia change to this fem-groot looking design got criticized a lot, and before the beta, I did defend it, assuming it was part of a greater rework of Atlantean gods, making them look more monstrous, matching Kronos, and giving them a distinct look that sets them appart from the Greek gods, despite being directly connected.
The fact that Gaia is the only one that was meaningfully changed makes me feel like that wasn’t the intention behind the redesign, and I honestly don’t like the implication that it may be politically motivated.

Graphical bugs like textures not loading, and audio bugs like lines of dialogue being cut off during campaign cutscenes are a thing too. I do have mixed feelings about the voice acting. On one hand, it seems like the chraracters are now intended to talk with a greek accent, which I can get behind. (but in the case of Arkantos, I’d prefer a different kind of accent, for reasons I’ll get to shortly) On the other hand, the line delivery seemed like the actors were simply reading their text off a script, and not really acting.

The campaign being exactly the same as in the original, I can get the appeal of. But given that the Atlanteans exist, it makes it confusing as to why there are no Atlanteans in Atlantis.
Of course, the reason behind it is that the Atlanteans in the original were added later in an expansion, and when the campaign of the main game was made, they didn’t know about an Atlantean faction yet, and when they did make the Atlantean faction, they had to make them distinct from other existing factions to sell copies.
This created a plot hole we were willing to excuse and overlook, even rationalize, 20 years ago, because we understood the situation that was going on outside the game.

That same situation, however, doesn’t apply here. Here, the devs need to redo the story knowing the Atlanteans will be there from the start. The only real reason they have is to not have Arkantos speak Atlantean instead of Greek, and to not have Atlantean Buildings and military units in Atlantis, is nostalgia for the original games, where all of that was simply Greek stuff.
This comes at the cost of lore consistency. Atlanteans are their own, distinct faction available for skirmish and multiplayer from the very beginning, but don’t exist in the main campaign, aren’t even hinted at. And new players, who didn’t play the original, will not find out why until they finish the Arkantos storyline, which in itself is 32 missions.
This is something that may be very confusing, which is why I suggest a (campaign only) hybrid faction that blends together Greek elements (specifically Poseidon as a major god, an well as Gameplay elements) with Atlantean elements (specifically architecture style, clothes and armor human units wear, and the language they speak)
This could be a simple reskin of Poseidon assets, or it could be a more complex hybrid of both cultures.
This would include Arkantos speaking more Atlantean than Greek.
The idea behind it is that the first two missions, maybe three, we would play as the hybrid faction, training arcuses rather than toxotes, and utilizing fire syphons rather than petropoli.
For the siege of Troy, we shift to greek, then Egyptian, etc. In the dream mission, the enemy where we need to destroy the wonder is also the Hybrid faction.
Then in the end, we play as Greeks again, but Atlantis is either the hybrid faction again, or proper Atlanteans. (Gargarensis can stay Greek. I’m mostly referring to the civillians, in the last sentence.)
That would be my suggestion.

I like the fact that the new Ulfsark/Berserk is consistent with which gatherer is turned into one now. So they don’t make a ### ###### anymore. A dwarf sized version would also be nice. I wouldn’t mind if it could only be made by turning dwarves into Berserks, and Berserks trained at the TC or Longhouse would still be either male or female. Dwarves seemed slightly too tall, but maybe that’s just me. Ragnarök heroes had a dwarf version in the original. Can we get that back too? (And have the hero the villagers turn into match the type of villager they were. I didn’t try the Ragnarök power in the beta, so I don’t know if it does translate, but I hope it does. In the original, what type of gatherer it was didn’t influence what kind of Ragnarök hero it turned into. It was simply random.)
For the Golden Gift campaign in the Extended Edition, the dwarf sized Ragnarök heroes were used as starting units. So if you want to redo that campaign, you’ll need them anyway.

So far, I approve of the changes to the Egyptians. Only complaint I have is that the red particle effect for Set monument effects looks weird.

1 Like

Yes, they wanted to do it like in AoE 3 where you have giant portraits of the protagonists…

Regarding your points of having Atlanteans be Atlantis in the campaign, it appears you haven’t actually understood how the campaign worked or the Atlantean lore in the context of AOM.
Atlantis starts as a Greek Colony. Hence the beginning dialogue with theocrat instructing Arkantos to support his liege lord Agamemnon. Otherwise why would Atlantis have to “pay attention to the other Greek colonies”. Atlantis is Greek.
After the fall of Atlantis, the survivors are refugees thought to be dead. Forsaken by Greece and the Greek gods, they turn to the Titans for help. They develop their own identity in the mould of the Titans and in direct contrast to the Greeks, as they now no longer worship the Greek Gods but instead the Titans. This is why they look, sound and are composed differently, though with obvious Greek similarities. They become a new people with new gods and a new identity after the Greeks had abandoned them and thought them dead.
So it makes sense they’re Greek in the Fall of the Trident campaign, whereas in the New Atlantis (even look at the name of the campaign says they’re different than before), it makes sense they are this new civ with a new identity, gods etc.

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Yes, I would like them to expand the lore of the Atlanteans, such as the fact that after several centuries they settled in the Iberian Peninsula and created Tartessos, who faced the Celts and Carthaginians during the Iron Age…

The gods alone don’t explain the architecture and language. Nor the Llamas. The only reason gods are considered the reason for different building style is gameplay, not lore. Either add lore for the new, Inca looking builldings, add them to Atlantis, or delete them.
Also, Plato described Atlantis as being located beyond the pillars of heracles, meaning outside the medditerranean. Beta campaign map shows Atlantis being a small island next to Greece. But the tutorial shows it as it was in the original. If we go by what Plato said, even tho he did say they worshipped Poseidon, they should be distinctly and decidedly be not-Greek. (Julius Caesar also said the Gauls worship Merkur, and to this day we have no idea which celtic god he equated with him)

I think you’re missing the point.
The campaign is not historically accurate…Greeks in the Norselands? The point of having the Atlanteans a Greek faction in the Fall of the Trident (aside from the fact that when that campaign came out there was no Atlantean faction), is that they were a Greek colony in the game lore. When the titans expansion came out the devs chose to show that Atlantis was now abandoned by the Greeks and their gods, refugees believed dead. The Atlanteans then forged their new identity, hence why in that campaign they are a distinct faction rather than being Greek again. No longer Greek, they made their own way.
But in the fall of the trident they are still part of the in-game Greco-sphere, worshipping Poseidon as their principle deity but the other Gods too. In the lore and campaign it’s Zeus who aids them in defeating Poseidon and Kronos. That wouldn’t make sense if they were the Atlantean faction. In the New Atlantis (even the title suggests they are now a NEW Atlantis, not the old people they were in the first campaign), it’s Gaia who becomes their principle aid, not Zeus.
As for Beta campaign placing Atlantis in two different locations, it’s clearly a bug for one of them (we’ve yet to see which one the devs decide as correct)

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Strongly disagree on using the Atlantean civ in the first campaign. Keeping the Greeks isn’t just for nostalgia. Changing it would completely change the gameplay. The point of the campaign is to introduce the player to each culture, and they built a story around that. The stuff added in the expansion wasn’t as good as the original anyway.

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The Atlanteans are getting a big rework it seems so I’m optimistic that they will be on the same level of quality as the base 3 civilisations.

I agree you should play as Greeks in the first 2 missions before you arrive in Troy just to make it easier to learn the game but I still think that the Atlantean civ and units should be used in the first campaign in some capacity. Doesn’t have to be playable.

It feels so wrong that all the Atlantean stuff in the second campaign comes essentially out of no where.

They could add some official explanation to it like that the Atlanteans adopted Greek culture when they started worshipping Poseidon or something.
Then after the Fall of the Trident they go back to worshipping the Titans at the beginning of the New Atlantis campaign, explaining why they generally return to their traditions.

2 Likes

Well, that’s a plus. Obviously the usage of the AI was heavily directed rather than left to its own devices.

That’s part of a recent trend in Western media where female characters are not allowed to be attractive. For some reason, beautiful women are simply not considered acceptable in Western fiction.

I am also not a fan of this redesign. The redesign of Aphrodite (which is good-looking in isolation) fits Gaia more than Aphrodite. I think you’re right about Gaia, and it’s connected to what I said before. Aphrodite is a natural exception to this rule because she is supposed to be exceptionally beautiful, and even then, she still looks fairly average.

I’m used to Persona games, which have large character portraits during dialogue in normal cutscenes (as opposed to more cinematic cutscenes). Then again, such a thing works for Persona, because 33% of the game is a visual novel. Age of Mythology is an RTS, and is much more action-oriented, so the large portraits are probably just distracting.

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Again. Where do the inca looking buildings and Llamas come from? Worshipping titans does not explain that by themselves.
The Atlanteans are not the people who survived the end of Atlantis? What’s Kastor doing there then? As I see it, they are the same people, even though they worship different gods. If that’s the case, why are they speaking a completely different language and using entirely different architecture?
“Forging a new identity” means completely redesigning their style of architecture, and making up a completely new language and using it as their new native language?
It makes no sense for none of that being preexisting in any way shape or form, and if it didn’t exist, it makes no sense for it to suddenly appear. The titan worship does not explain that by itself.

That’s a continuity/consistency error that could be resolved with as little as swapped voice lines and a couple reskinned assets. Retold has the opportunity to resolve it, something the Original and EE couldn’t, but appearently chose not to do it.
If you think that’s for the better, than that’s your opinion.

The A.I. controversy aside because let’s be honest if the gameplay, story, graphics and UI is as good or better as you remember it to be then it’s not really an issue. For me, the inability for units to heal was a big turn-off, I hope they reintroduce units that heal other units like they did with EE. the rest was ok and even the voice acting was decent for what it is.

Yes, it makes sense anyway, since the original campaign continues to serve as a tutorial or rather “mini-campaigns” for the 3 civilizations: 15 missions with the Greeks, 9 missions with the Egyptians and 9 with the Norse… also it wouldn’t have there’s no point in playing as Atlanteans if they weren’t in Atlantis…

yeah i mean most of us complain about either the god portrats, the UI or the voiceacting. I think thats a good sign since beside some animations issues, stuck villagers and a couple of sounds the game is in a great state.

  • the graphic style fits
  • the details are amazing (environmental changes of buildings, smoke, destruction effects, some new myth unit idles and animations, some really cool voice overs (all giants for example and also nemean lion - i guess to make him less a giant ordinary lion ^^ and so on)
  • the upgrades of units look mostly really well done (except for maybe some norse human units)
  • some great improvements like better readable upgrades with also colour frames, some really really cool upgrades and improvements of the myth units (even i STILL hope every myth unit will get an upgrade which changes it visually)
  • the pathing is great i think
  • the buildings look great and readable
  • the water looks in my opinion really great
  • the improved soundtrack sounds amazing
  • some helpful interface improvements
  • amazing redesigns
  • mostly greatly improved sfx (arrows, arrows on armor etc)
  • no major bugs or crashes

and the list can go on. i would still say 80-90% is easily REALLY well done and fleshed out. if they make the experience even smoother, change some art (or get rid of it like in the campaign xD) and add cool upgrades to every myth unit which change their visuals like e.g. Frost Giant, Fire Giant (still only for Hel atm :frowning: ) , Chimera, Nemean Lion, Minotaurus, Centaur and so on. then it will be not only great but amazing and totally wortht the price. - at least in my opinion!

1 Like