Arambai need nerf

No they don’t, absolutely useless against rams in imp.

All those units have siginificantly worse attack rate. Additionally, conqs and janissaries can’t be massed from 2 Castles because they cost food. HC are only accessible in imp where building have better pierce armor and often times masonry, plus, HC are slow and fragile, they can’t just sit under TC like Arambai. See for yourself, Arambai has pirce damage and no bonuses against buildings, only slight bonus against rams Arambai | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom

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Lol this guy? What other random things are you going to imagine?

:joy::joy: If they were doing melee damage they would be doing something like 20 dmg per hit my guy

Then it should be easy fix to just increase the pierce armor of buildings.
But it’s better to increase the Training time to 25 sec like every other cav Archer unit in castle.

But besides of that. There is an easy logic. Arambais are neither gunpowder nor arrow base range unit, so I put them in the same class as Throwing Axeman, Gbeto and Mamelukes. But yeah Aoe2 has nothing to do with logic.

Btw, has it? Didn’t read about that one before.

What a strange assumption. Skirms and scorps also do melee damage then?

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My guy… If arambai did melee damage like axeman, gbeto or mameluke they would be insanely strong…

Yes aoe2 doesn’t have logic in certain areas… But this is one of the worst examples and if anything a thrown dart should be pierce damage.

I really like this idea and fits thematically… But i think it’s by design arambai specifically are meant to be building killers otherwise that UT wouldn’t have affected them.

Devs specifically included arambai to be included under the UT which indicates what they think the arambai should be doing.

But would still be great if it changed to a pure unit killer. Would likely need other adjustments though (cost etc)

Just because YOU can’t counter them, doesn’t mean they can’t be countered. There are a lot of counters for them. Xbows, Arbs, massed Skirms, Eagles, high-PA units, Elephants, Scorpions, Mangonel, all capable of being trained NOT at a castle, and therefore faster than Arambai.

Eagle Warriors, Mangonels and Elephants are useless vs Arambai

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bro in mass they are unkilleable

If you nerf arambai then Burmese will be a terrible civ. They are already not good on most maps except fortress or arena. They will decline like Spanish after their conquistador nerf but worse. There has to be compensation like BE buff or Burmese will be unplayable.

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If we look at why nobody does the same thing with Janissaries:

Arambai:
75 wood, 60 gold
60HP
17 pierce attack
rate of fire 2
0 melee armour
1 pierce armour
speed 1.3

Janissary:
60 food, 55 gold
44HP
17 pierce attack
rate of fire 3.49
1 melee armour
0 pierce armour
speed 0.96

If we assume heavy plow has been researched, there is a hidden cost of 10 wood per Janissary (60*60/375), making it effectively 135 resources for Arambai vs 125 for Janissary. So for starters, the HP of the Janissary is poor value relative to the resource cost (55HP would equal 125/135). And farms consume more APM to make, and cost wood up front. Then, as you mention, there is the huge difference in rate of fire, and it can be argued that 1 pierce armour is more useful than 1 melee armour. And to add to all that, the Arambai is faster as well.

Obviously it isn’t the goal for all unique units to be identical, but relative weakness in one area should be offset by relative strength in another. At the moment, the Arambai is pretty much just plain better in every way compared to the Janissary (in Decision Theory, this is described as one option “dominating” another option).

Janissaries have some theoretical stronger aspects, but in practice they don’t do much. The faster creation time doesn’t help with reaching the critical mass for attacking, because resources are the limiter. And the greater range and accuracy are of limited benefit, because the meta with Arambai is to use them more like a melee unit, getting right next to what you’re attacking, and their speed lets them do this.

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Sigh…TG, the source of most unit nerf ideas.

I’ll just propose a couple ideas here.

  1. Make arambai accuracy 0% (elite or not) and cut its base damage in half. (Or 1/4 if people still mass them in TG)
  2. Double the wood cost or add 50% gold cost or whatever, making arambai much harder to mass. Or, make arambai cost food instead of wood.
  3. Remove Manipur cavalry effect on arambai.

Basically, nobody would build arambai anymore and make Burmese a powerful melee civ but less potent than teutons (no melee armour bonus).

These threads also reminds me a lot of people on this forum asking to revert Khmer to HD version because AOE3 farm is too powerful.

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This is problem here, everybody who is skilled enough knows how broken arambai is, there is no need to explain that over and over, but then i come here just to read some guys saying “arambai is the only thing burmese can do” “burmese bad civ” bad civ with free wood upgrades? “worst archers in the game” really what about spanish or bulgarians…“archers and skirms beats them” 11 seriously they have never faced arambais before in large numbers, they rekt everything once they are close enough.

Arambai has no bonus vs buildings unless you upgrade the nasty UT they have, but they already inflict more damage to buildings than any other ranged unit in game, which translates in an unit capable of breaking buildings super fast, arena is not the only map they can perform that, hillfort, hideout, fortress and those maps are in the map pool every 15 days so…

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Well maybe is late but they are nerfed now:
Attack reduced 12/15 for elite while missed shots do more damage.

Honestly the unit concept is utter 100% trash, a conquistador like unit that massed do the same as a Siege Onager with mobility is silly and broken, plus having insanely low armor so basically get terribly wrecked by any ranged unit, hell even the Persian trashbows laugh at them.
In what world you would make them over Conquistador which offers you much better armor and HP plus goldless BS upgrades.

From what i saw, Arambai is still prefered to Conqs for most situations in Arena, due to Arambai costing wood instead of food, and more importantly the big wood bonus of burmese (2 castles conqs are simply not viable). But for sure they are much worse now vs high pierce armor units (skirm/huskarl), which i would prefer conqs vs them.
Arambai in imperial war could be better than ever now, vs mass units, esp at longer range, the misfired target bonus (50% to 100% damage) is huge

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Afaik the larger consensus is its only an anti building nerf, otherwise the damage is a change not a nerf. Since they do much more damage at range than they used to. So they can kite better. But they are essentially the definition of a glass cannon as far as CA go. Whereas the conq is a more tanky lower dps version.

But i agree with venatic, the wood is a much lower fee to pay in comparison to food. I think both civs have their advantages and disadvantages though…

I personally like the change, arambais were too good at shotgunning melee units. Low accuracy doesn’t really matter when the target is close enough. Now arambais are better when engaging targets farther aways, since the missed shots can still deal full damage if they connect with a target. They should also scale better into imperial massed fights, whereas the conquistadors are not that great anymore by that point in time.

Since now the attack js reduced, I would like the survivability to go up. Not directly. Make them affected by Parthian Tactics though. As of now, if you add the effect, Arambais will only get the armor, not the attack boost against spear units.

Since thy are not gunpowder units, but they are missile units, they can also be affected by Chemistry. +1 sounds modest but can be helpful once in a while.

The point is: these buffs do not come in castle age, where the problem lied. And sure these buffs also aren’t free.

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I agree they need more survivability

I was thinking, Elite Arambai gains +5 hp and +1 melee armor (nothing too big, but enough to make them a bit tougher)

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They can still kill stuff just fine. And if you start giving them more melee armour all of a sudden trying to kill them with cavalry becomes even harder.