because the archer bonus literally applies to only 1 unit (archer line units), where as the burmese bonus applies to 4 (scouts, knights, elephants, arambai).
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Whoa… stop pointing fingers… and by the way, anyone can use their favorite units, you stated this e topics precisely because you don’t like using archers, so I assume that you like to play something else.
What game are you playing? Everyone knows that the right counter to archers are skirms.
All that gold that you estimate before, are wasted before skirms, you don’t even need to win with them, just to trade cost effectively.
On that, actually, I agree, like most of people here…
Her it is more sources:
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Walling on arabia is literally the main meta now.
I’m sorry but you and your opponent hit castle at the same time, but he has 30-40 archers and you have nothing?
Something it’s not right here, it’s either you math or your strategy.
But that’s bonus is just for cavalry and arambai, saracens are the only ones that get +3 vs buildings right after castle age, mayans need a a UT for that, meaning a castle, which for sure isn’t the first thing that you build after aging up.
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Archer has 35 second training time in all ages
Eagles have 60 seconds TT in feudal, then 35 in other ages
Just hover over the TT time number in the wiki…
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I would somehow agree before last pathing fixes. After those knights actually trade good against archers again, making Knights+Skirms plays in castle age way stronger again.
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From a balance and realism perspective its still very odd.
Balance = they’re melee units they have to risk dying and cannot all attack the same target
Realism =arrows in relatice terms do more damage than a melee unit vs stone ? Huh? (bonus damage from melee is only to standard and not stone as opposed to archer doing bonus damage to stone as well means they are doing more damage than melee)
I don’t agree with the OP since he’s clearly either exaggerating or has a misunderstanding.
But he is right about how archers don’t interfere with teching. Whereas skirms /knights do.
There’s a few reasons archer to xbow is generally meta even for civs that don’t get arbs. Heck it’s even meta for aztecs without thumb ring…
There’s still the old argument that it’s easier to dodge a mangonel shot than it is to land it properly when countering archers.
So specifically for lower elos archers are even more meta.
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Well scouts into knights is also very streamlined, remember the last months before DE Franks was one of THE top picks on arabia and their scouts into knights was just amazing. And tbh for engagements melee pathing is about the same level again than on voobly.
I feel like players will also have to adjust to the pathing again. We have learned for 3 quarters of year, that u dont make melee units anymore simply. I feel like knights/eagles are underused atm, we had so many full eagle castle age plays, which I expect to see more of again in RBW2 and KOTD3.
Thats of course speculation, but also my own experience.
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Sorry but, git gud!
" In the form of encouragement to get somebody to do better than they’re currently doing(Which is probably sucking at whatever video game they are playing "
Had to say it. I would like to see any of the replays you have and point some mistakes (must be other reason for the loss, archer is good but not OP). Best unit of castle age is still the knight (thx DE! pathing is fixed now). In the other hand, I rather have archer than skirm.
Archers are OP, but only because melee unit pathing sucks.
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if you reach castle age with 0 or low army at the same time as your opponent while he has 40 archers then you should work on your feudal eco management… a lot
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It’s your own problem that you are unwilling to accept archers are not OP and balanced.
If this wasn’t the case we have T90, Biper, Hera etc to tell us.
Because maybe, just maybe you are not using the right counter? Skirmishers or Mangonels are counters, not cavalry.
Okay? So? Your point?
Makes it easy for an Onager shot.
And you are right? Ok…
Melee pathing is improved tho.
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Then I wonder why the meta is to wall even on Arabia.
I’ve done my reseach and turns out that while stone walls have a +16 bonus armour on their building armour (blocks bonus damage froms siege, eles and indian camels) it does nothing to help them against bonus damage targeted against their standard building armour, so any bonus damage that is applied to an archer, infantry, standard cav or arambai unit isn’t blocked at all.
Fortunately only Mayan ones do get anti-stone defense bonus (else arena games against sarracen would be kinda ridiculous 11)
Thumb ring is often researched late because its 300 food cost is quite heavy, so the lack of thumb ring for some civs isn’t noticeable early.
Some tought :
1/- In feudal age, skirmisher hard counter archer (especialy with the armor tech). A player training archers with 2 range will reach castle age arround 22 min with 20-25 archers. You can be a bit faster playing scout or 1 range skirmisher.
2/- In castle age, you can kill archers with knight (but if there is a lot of crossbow it will be difficult). You have onager, but I find that the most effective counter to archer is 3-4 scorpions.
3/- With your elo (sub 1000 1v1), you should just try to improve. Most player you play against don’t understand how the game works or have low overall macro. You should be able to win easily if you work on a few things :
A) Learn a good build order (scout rush, maa into archer/skirmisher). Practice your build order (you should watch your time and compare it with perfect time (e. g. 10:05 for 22 pops).
B) minmize your tc idle time (you should always be training villagers).
C) build 1 other tc when you hit castle age, and a 2 one when you can afford it. You will need 18 villagers on food to afford villager production, so you should have more farmer if you want to build military unit costing food
D) Scout what your opponent are doing and build the counter.
E) Have a game plan (e. g. castle drop, late imp army etc.)
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Archers are op due the insta fire, he is not wrong at all, last nights i was confident countering 10 archers with 5 feudal skirms fully upgraded, since the archer deals minimum damage to the skirm, but my surprise was that even doing the counter unit and just slightly less numbers i lost the battle because skirms shoot slower than archers, microing archers is just too easy, while microing the skirms is not that good, they move slower than archs and sometimes they refuse to shoot, plus the minimum range, players are picking ethiopians, mayans, vietnamese and brits non stop, unless you pick byzantines you will be behind on economy if you attempt to counter them with skirms, if you go for archers you will lose given the economic bonuses or military bonuses those civs have.
Players even in 1500 range know how to micro vs mangonels, the higher the level the easy it becomes to fool the mangonel shoots, knights well they don’t counter that good xbows because you might not have the numbers, knights are a castle age unit, you can mass archers since feudal, add few monks later and you will be fine vs knights.
The meta is just too focused in archer line, in DE given the fast response archers work better in this game version, than in all the previous one., since theyhave added frame delay to everything itmight be wise to add the same to archer line for fairness.
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And what did you do with all that food army? (food army? I mean, are they scouts, skirms, infantry?).
Also, yes food is needed for aging up, but in late feudal/castle food is gathered through farms, and farms cost wood, so if he spent all that wood in archers, he probably doesn’t have that better eco…
Why shouldn’t they? Huns archers are perfectly fine, and usually they transition to CA, so it makes perfectly sense.
You are better to calm down.
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111
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Dude, I always play Franks and Magyars and always with Knights! And I reach Imp before my enemy like Mayans or Vietnamese.
There are obviously a few exaggerations in the OP but in general he is correct in his sentiments and to nitpick small details he got wrong is rather silly and not conducive to a good discussion.
Archers are very powerful for several reasons: they are good in feudal since you can break down walls and prevent back layers of walls as well as reaching over woodlines. They can be amassed in the feudal age already in contrast to Knights or CAs. They allow a faster Castle and Imp time since food is a slower resource to get. They have a very strong and cheap power spike with both x-bows and Arbs.
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Maybe you have more of a fast Imp playstyle but there is no doubt that food is a slower resource than wood, both in the initial wood-conversion for the farm and the gather rate itself.
I’m not train an army to boom independent. If you have military you always try to slow down enemy’s Eco.