Are Camels balanced?

Yeah, something like few HP (+5? +10?)/slightly faster attack/+1 PA (choose one) and little bonus aginst Eagles and they will be fine.

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I feel reducing the halb bonus against them back to african kingdoms (17) or like 20-22 is a good idea, Having halbs do almost the same damage against them as against knights but knights being much better at killing the halbs makes little sense. The cost difference isn’t too big either

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They could geta little better. I always found having 6 attack not enough.

On a personal opinion I would like sarracens camels to have any kind of bonus

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I wonder what are the reasons for all the nerfs Camels received over the years.

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On the contray, they were masively buffed over the years. They used to have Ship armour, which made them useless at raiding.

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This was a massive buff indeed, but then:
Pikes, Halbs and Chieftains were made stronger vs them
Indian lost their +1 melee armor

Maybe in the end that’s not that big of a deal, but I don’t get the reason of these tweaks (even tho I guess there is a good one)

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I’d forgotten this. Dam. Was it considered OP?

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Yes, because they already go through cavalry like a hot Knife through butter.

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I think the complaint was Indian pocket invalidating paladin pockets completely but I don’t understand how 1 melee armor made the difference. Halbs still countered them badly and the Camels still owned paladins

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I would say, Camels are a good defensive Option. At most, i would maybe buff Camel Archers to be a bit better against Calvary in General and not only Cav Archers

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Camels are also good at raiding. If all you need is to defend, Pikes are better than Camels. The best aspect of Camels, is taht they actually catch up to the units they counter, and are not purely defensive.

That’d be broken, like increase Berber pick rate so high that cavalry go extinct broken

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I dont know… They always seem like an oddly specific counter unit to me, that you produce like in 1% of the games maybe… But i am no Berber Main, so idk…

I just thought, they are Camels and if they get like +5 Dmg against Cavalry, it would surely make them better than Cav Archers in that Matchup.

Right now, they just feel like Castle-Cav Archers, but they dont really feel Camelish

Camels are something you use against Paladin and Cav Archer civs.

Up against Persians, Spanish, Khmer or Franks? Camels.
Up against Mongols, Huns, Cumans or Tatars? Camels.
Up against Turks, Saracens, Indians, Berbers or Malians? Maybe Camels.

Plenty of great matchups for Camels, actually, specially in Meta civs.

You don’t make them to counter cav archers specifically, you make them to use like a power unit. Like Mangudais. I don’t understand this, its the same when people ask why make rattans when skirmishers counter archers better. Berbers make Camel archers all the time after the castles go up

They’re in every way better than Cav archers, more attack, less frame delay, better armor and regeneration with the unique tech. Kasbah tech also helps you to mass them fast enough for castle age use unlike Mangudai.

Giving them bonus against cavalry is a recipe for disaster. Mamelukes being much more expensive only have 3 range, have to deal with counters like halbs and archers. Camel archers are good against halbs and archers by nature, making them anti-cavalry would straight up remove one of their counters. Genoese xbows with their anti-cavalry bonus is atleast balanced by the fact that they don’t have the mobility to follow around cavalry. Yes Camels do that but Camels have some hard counters and don’t have 7 range, and knights can still run away from camels with a headstart

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I think one problem might be just how insanely strong the spear-line is vs the camel line now.

If you compare the damage from Conquerors expansion 2001 and now:

Spearmen used to deal +5 bonus damage to camels, now +12

Pikemen dealt +11 bonus damage to camels, now +18.

and Halberdiers dealt +16 bonus to camels, now +26!!!

So spear-line units now deal almost the same damage to camels as to cavalry, with the difference being that knights can actually kill spear-line units in a decent time, while camels have much lower attack.

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That is because Camel units went from being Ships (and therefore countered by Towers to a ridiculous level), to being Cavalry.
They needed a hard counter to make sure they would not just become a cheaper and more efficient alternative to Knights, so the Spearman line got a buff to how well they handle Camels.

This bonuses are smaller in comparison to the normal cavalry.
Pikeman deal +22 damage vs cavalry.
Halberdier deal + 32.
And Camels are mounted units, so this counter make sence.

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The complaint is the bonus difference isn’t enough since the camel is much worse offensively. Compared to knights, they only share similar HP until Paladin upgrade overtakes that too. Camels have almost half the attack of the knight line, slower attack rate and zero armor. The cost difference isn’t large enough I feel

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This is very true. More people should realize this, and a slight buff to camels must happen now.

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