I’ve said this a few times in the past, but I think the best change to eagles would be to increase the cost by 15 food and make supplies apply to them.
This way they’ll remain a powerful unit with the same ultimate cost, but will make them less spam-able at minute 18
if Eagles get nerfed, Aztecs and Incas have nothing going for them. Mayans become B-tier ish.
You guys need to realize that Meso doesn’t have Knights AND no spammable Scout-line. That’s 2 key Arabia units not 1 they are missing like say Bengalis or Britons who still can go LC late-game.
Aztecs already right now are arguably not top tier anymore, you get 1 moment to shine, early Castle with Eagles all-in, and normally the player with better micro wins, Aztecs don’t have much more besides this early push going for them really and in Imperial they suck rly hard on Arabia. Even their eco bonus is not very impressive compared to some of the stuff new civs like Gurjaras or Bengalis or even old Vikings or Khmer get.
Incas likewise, all infantry is not a great comp and if the Slavs cheap Castles was deserved by 1 civ, it’s maybe Incas. Incas basically can do a weaker all-in Eagles but can mix in Slingers and their Imp doesn’t suck as hard. Still they are a very uninspiring middle-of-the-pack civ with not much to show in Imp.
Mayans I wouldn’t be opposed to getting nerfs but nerfs need to go toward their Archer-line imo. The rest of their tech tree and gameplay makes sense, including 100 HP Eagles which is fairly expensive and kicks in relatively late. You could reduce El Dorado to 95 or 90 HP but not less than that. Anyway, either archer as a whole gets nerfed (for example, Crossbow upgrade becomes more expensive), or Mayans get some form of Archery range nerf. Either one works.
I personally think Mayans need 3 things.
Imo they could remove that bonus and give it to another civ and mayans would still be fine.
And yes it is a very strong bonus i know.
But unlike Italians, this would buff the entire team! Kinda like Kasbah (though that is useful in 1v1s too).
Mayans need some tweaks. But Aztecs/Incas really need nerf for their core play? Buff to longsword/HC was already indirect nerf for eagle play and countering eagle with those units are now much more reasonable.
Aztecs are arguably most terrible civ in imp in open map and they need to be strong in castle age. They are also one of the worst civ in open map team game. Yes. Eagle are strong in early-mid castle age. But it is intended design for civ with no stable at all? Also strong powerspike is what make game interesting and diverse. I don’t think Aztec is now one of the civ need more nerf.
Incas actually need some minor buff. They have strong answer to everything but too gold dependent with weak eco. Hindustanis are just steroid version of Incas. They have arguably better answer against Cavalry/archer (HC is only available in imp and Incas have slinger before that but ghulam is better vs archer than eagle and not to mention their camel). Access to fully upgraded Hussar for trash war, having better seige and much stronger eco on top of that. I can’t believe Incas need more nerf than buff.
Hindustanis/Gurjaras are civs need more tweaks.
Infantry armors are free replacing Villager gets benefit from blacksmith infantry upgrades (start from castle age).
Infantry armor for free is way too strong in Castle age.
i think getting it instantly is too strong. but maybe making it half price would be a good change.
Alternatively remove the gold cost. I know this is the same as the Spanish bonus but hear me out:
for spanish this is primarily used for Knight Line and Conquistador upgrades, secondarily for HC, pikes and skirmishers. (although i guess they could hypothetically go for CA, only missing parthian tactics)
but for inca this would be for Xbow/arbalest (spanish dont have these), Eagle, Slingers and Kamayuk.
So while there is overlap on paper it plays out completely differently
Since Eagles are functionally quite similar to Light - & Medium cavalry, they could have somewhat similar cost.
E.g. - Eagle Scout cost changed from 20f 50g → 40f 35g.
Here’s how the price change would affect the production cost: (units trained in 10 mins)
Eagle Scout/Warrior (17)
- (34.3 → 68.6) food / min
- (85.7 → 60) gold / min
Elite Eagle Warrior (30)
- (60 → 120) food / min
- (150 → 105) gold / min
For comparison - the cavalry units:
Scout-line (20)
- (160 food / min)
Knights (20)
- (120 food / min)
- (150 gold / min)
Camel Rider (27)
- (150 food / min)
- (163.6 gold / min)
Steppe Lancer (25)
- (175 food / min)
- (100 gold / min)
I know. But I don’t think it is OP. And Incas kinda needs it to have a reason to pick them over Aztecs and Mayans.
that would be a huge nerf. food is the most valuable and difficult to obtain resource in castle age. it’s way easier to get 30 gold than 30 food, so this would make them almost unplayable I think, considering how much weaker an eagle warrior is compared to a knight
With the Incas I would change the bonus for the villagers. The villagers no longer benefit from the blacksmiths but from the barracks technologies. The villagers then cost -15 food and run 10% faster if the technologies are researched. The Incas would then have bonuses from the Hindustani and a bonus from the Berbers. Since the Incas themselves don’t have any eco bonuses, I don’t think it’s broken.
Agree with all except the res bonus, it’s already been nerfed substantially, and it’s their only eco bonus. Between nerfing El Dorado/Cotton Armor eagles to 90 HP and an archer discount reduction, Mayans should be fine.
Interesting idea. But 35 food villager from Feudal age is basically broken.
Start with +1 villager but -50 food is an eco bonus.
Forgot about that. I would remove that before I mess with their res bonus, which is their only persistent eco bonus.
Because eagles are made slightly more expensive!?
I’m convinced you’re either lying about your elo, or one tricked your way there. Aztecs will still have great eagles,still have a great eco, still have the extra gold, still train everything faster, including siege, and finally still have MONSTER monks… i can’t imagine you have the elo you say you do without using monks , how can you say they have nothing?
Eagles are an eco bonus
Their archer discount is an eco bonus. Do Berbers not exist?
I highly doubt Devs are going to do a complete redesign on how eagles work and when their powerspikes are
This makes them much weaker earlier on when food income is expensive, and much stronger in the late game when gold starts to be a problem.
I don’t want to imagine how strong el Dorado eagles will be at 35g. They’re already more cost effective than generic cavaliers. Imagine being 70% the cost…
While generally I advocate for civ usage at some point civs just aren’t as good for TGs without making them OP in 1v1
Not in the way that most people understand “eco bonus.” Sure, you can try to be clever just for the sake of making this argument, but it’s not really useful. You can say that every bonus is both an eco and a military bonus, but that destroys the point of making any distinction anyway.
Similar to above. Yes, it functions similarly to an eco bonus when you are making archers, but most people understand eco bonus to mean something that benefits your eco independent of other choices (what units you’re making). Military bonuses benefit your military (either in terms of quality or quantity) regardless of other choices made. Else you get people making terrible arguments like “Goths have an amazing eco!” because of their infantry discount.
That should be the idea. Right now mid game eagle spam is really strong.
If eagle cost is really changed I’ll propose the middle ground. I really wish the cost same as Ghulam, 30f/45g. If not, then 35f,40g.