Are native civs too poor?

Before this patch, Aztec was 3rd lowest pick rate, sub 50% win rate, and also among the least picked for tournaments. Additionally, a comparitively larger portion of their games are likely won due to players being unfamliar with playing against them. Imagine how weak and unpopular they will be now after getting 8 nerfs.

  • 2 War Hut Travois (II): Improves the hitpoints of War Huts by 15% (down from 20%).

  • Community Plaza: hitpoints reduced to 1200 (from 1500).

  • High Priest of Ixtlilton (I): The Gather Work Rate of Warrior Priests is now increased by 10% (down from 20%).

  • Infinite 1300 Coin (IV): Arrival time increased to 60 seconds (up from 40 seconds). The card will arrive in ~40 seconds due to the recent acceleration of Imperial Age card arrivals.

  • Eagle Runner Knight: Added a 0.75x multiplier against infantry to all ranged attacks.

Eagle Runner Knight: * Lowered range resistance to 20% (from 25%).

  • Warrior Priest: Cover mode removed.

  • Warrior: Now grants 10 XP to the enemy player when defeated.


Before concerning my marco issue, try once to do 15 vils age up and put your front base in a 3v3 map, see when will you have first batch toma.
Although I am not main Haud but I am also not new to Haud. This BO is from a top 20 player do you think he doesn’t have good marco?
I know Haud can send 4 Kanya but they are just weak for cav fighting. You will lose in every cav battle, same as toma vs musk fighting, even you are able to have very good macro and micro your WC can predict the location to fight and chase the cav.

Just want to remind you Jan range attack is 20 and Toma is 19, and people say Toma is strong :smiley:

I repeat again, this is 3v3 map, front base in middle map (obvious you skip this part and I have already put at the beginning of my reply, you are assuming WH comes out directly in the middle map after age up, I can also do much faster for just put WH at base) , 10 Toma are all at front base, more eco than only sending 6 toma, a BO from top 20 player.
If you can do better, please provide your record.

Most of people don’t understand, Haud is completely trash in team game and Otto can fully take Haud’s role with much stronger.

As you can see people are still arguing with assuming Haud WC can run like cav through a team game map, age up travios from TC doesn’t need time go for fb.

Pick Haud in team game is a taunt, same as sending hot balloon for first card to scout opponent.

You literally idled for 1.5 min in the first 5 minutes doesnt matter what unit you could be making light cannon age2 and you die, thats a serious macro issue, and no guide says “age fast and idle for 1.5 minutes including kevins” plus they just nerfed healers cause haude was to strong eco equivilent for treaty so i guess you’re not saying 1v1 or treaty eco just 3v3(and prob 4v4)
Like what else can i say while haudes eco isnt the best if you make 0 units after a fast age up you wasted all the tempo. also in the world cup theres a few haude matches that can rush in time too so id imagine map etc matter and still what you play on large map? A travoi shouldnt take over 1min and 15s (25s to make batch) to get there. if your mad the musk aren’t as good as otto and only for 3v3 not 1v1, then a conversation can be had but again, a musk with 10% hp 2-3 cards, age2 1 shipment 1 big button, and possible range14 is pretty solid conpated to most age2 musk and haude has solid eco in age2 vs most civs and gets to be aggresive. And you find a way to make a civ that can age up with 21 vills and have 5 age2 shipments and big buttons etc also gertbsuper late game eco while somehow not be broken in 1v1 with that mass and scaling, let me know

Lakota is the most OP civ, in 1v1 but especially team games.

Please upload your record here, a 3v3 great plain map front base in the middle. Stop assuming your ideal concept into actual game play. Thanks. You seems didn’t play any team game and challenge me.
Before you have record to show you don’t need almost 1 min to walk to middle of map. It is completely useless to talk.

Other points are totally meaningless to discuss you doesn’t know how team game is, and you are still concentrate your own point while is totally not working in team game.

Also remind you for basic concept, when you are sending cards for improving status, other civs are have more eco cards than Haud means their units are always more than Haud weak units. Don’t sound other civs don’t have unit improvement card to send. This is naive.

Ahh we at the “ima throw insults cause i have suspiciously low game knowledge part”

Yeah man this is over. Clearly you, who cant nake more than 11 units pre 5min, are a big pro. Really nothing more to say.

You had 2 points 1, that tomo were worse than jan, which is sort of a odd comparison- jans are strong age2 but very niche musket, and refuse to acknowledge any part of that- i assume you want instant uber musk? Cause that is basically the soldado maybe sentinel, everyone else uses musk ornnone at all but otto india malta and mexico. To which the tomo takes even trades under WC to musk, vs jans res to res almost before age2 cards. Yet to you these are “trash” even though 3v3s are very aggresive and all these eco cards dont mean squat first 15 to 20 min of the game. Given how much rushes happen, if you cant forward water or livestock even a 15 vill age up should have competitve eco. If your team isnt passive, and you have haude, probably should rush.

For 3v3 you usually cant fit space for treaty livestock boom(its micro af anyways) so you are left with solid skirms, decent musk, but no factories and a massive age4 cannon that you have to mass and not loose. You probably aint as strong as france dutch and certainly not a top civ, but only morons think not broken (btw otto jan comparison is a joke in 3v3 cause they going abus or deli). But yes, your eco is not very spectacular in teams late game- probably smarter to try not a boom vs euro civs. Never did i say haude was a boom civ. I was explaining how haude eco isnt a problem in the other 2 modes and not hopeless in 3v3, but you insist 1.5 minutes of idle (seriously wtf, age up crates or vills then) and ship no units during a rush i dont think you can blame that on a civ economy.

In short, i dont know your elo, but good luck. Maybe play a different civ if you want to passive boom with an age2 civ or accept you wont scale and have to be aggresive and work on rush macro a bit. Or make salty post and insult others. Gl, hf no re


Once the native civilizations were beautiful and even too strong but now it’s the opposite with all the new mechanics that didn’t serve a strain, right now a rework is better but not the usual De reworks a civilization logic rework.

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This strategy is called all in, once you could do it more effectively with 11 toma at 4 min and 15/20 or earlier with good treasures and another 5 tomason the way but you had a tp to scale the cards well, you could convert any guardian of the treasure and maps had less hunting and further away too.
Today it’s different civilizations defend themselves better, the maps are favorable for team boom if set up well you can stop such a rush and therefore he will have an economy of about 18/20 seattlers if lucky with hunting dogs, 1 money update more expensive than the European one with the same percentage and you have to invest in units because if you don’t you have weak units but how do you ship both unit and upgrade cards and also economy cards if the initial tp is not there? You can build it but you have to cut 100w so you don’t rush anymore and you lose effectiveness, so what do I use this civilization for?
I knew it well, I used it a lot on tad and when I tried to use it on De in 2v2 it really didn’t work this civ, especially with meta and ora maps (I played it against 2K+ Elo and I was also of the same level). So I changed civilization because it’s really useless, what that civilization does is done to you better by other civilizations so Iroquois lose meaning.

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This is not balance already and natives civs just get continuously nerfed. Yes we can change to other civs but the game will only go for several OP civs like now and what’s the point for creating so many civs.

Why are we still calling balance patch if the patch is not going to balance anymore?

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well just look lakota and haud, every single patch they get a nerf while every other civ get a buff, those 2 civ are just civ dev hate idk, even when it was the rework time those 2 civ got what 2 or 3 new card and that all, compared to other ahah, best exemple is the last patch, look how many change haud and lakota got Kappa

tbh i just stop to play haud or lakota cuz theyr bad, haud can be good but the civ just get destroyed by new card or new unit or insane eco or 1 billion cannon meta, lakota is just bad


Lakota are a solid civ, very effective when played by a good player. Haud are definitely weak in team games supremacy and treaty, especially in a treaty match.


The problem is not only little new cards…the cards are mostly useless…
What they buffed Ram and Mantlet are also useless…

I mean I understand why certain civs got more of a rework and it’s because civs like otto for example have like 10%+ pick rate compared to like 1% for haud though it’s not fair and perhaps more of a rework would have increased their pick rate because I’m pretty sure haud is the least popular civ in the game.

Haud is popular because OP in TAD… They can start with 2 TP in age1… See how many nerf to them until now.

Another example is vanilla AOE3 German, before their shipment requires more XP, there were 70% German Main in top 10. After this nerf German were less popular.

The problem is not only native got many nerfs, other civs also get OP new cards continuously. The gap becomes larger and larger.


i mean they are not all useless, but everything is age 4 like why…
So you can play new stuff only in team game where haud is bad, or treaty, or 1/100 in 1v1

Hauds have one of the best boomings (if not the best) of treaty games. Their only weak point was their need of wood but after addition of plenty forest and enviromentalism thats doesnt exist anymore.
In fact, Im for removing pop reduction effect for light canons.


interesting you say that because I have yet to fight a haud player in treaty that doesn’t get destroyed. Maybe the players that pick them are just bad.

Tbf treaty livestock booming takes alot of micro, then plaza switching, then the usual micro for fighting means the haude eco is a pain in the ass in treaty that usually is only fully realized in someone who can multi task very well. Prob why its rarely used in treaty as most people would rather focus on the fighting.

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Makes sense. I’m not a haud player except a little against the ai so I don’t know the best way to play them.