In a team game setting, at the very least. I personally think they’re even better than the Aztecs. On top of having brilliant champions with extra attack (without having to unlock through castle upgrade) you also have tanky elephants to deal with the Goth flood. Whereas playing some like the Mayans is garbage vs the Goth Flood.
I know Burmese seem to suck in many scenarios. But they seem to shine here. But what do you you think?
I think Byzantines might be a contender, with the Cataphracts. Maybe Japanese?
Hmm, not really.
Japanese, Teutons and Vikings are way stronger than Burmese against Goths.
Vikings have super strong economy and Champions that easily demolish any Huskarl/Champion combination due to the fact that can tank 2 extra hits with 14 more HP, and Berserkers murder anything Goths can field, plus Vikings are way stronger as flank.
Japanese champions are super strong with high dps, and just a few Samurai thrown into the pack can decimate Huskarls if the Goths player attempt to flood with them, also Japanese have FU cavalry archer which can be very useful in a team game.
Teutons have extra tanky Champions and as Japanese can throw some Teutonic Knight (not even Elite) and really hamper the offensive potential of the Goths flood. And of course Teutons are much stronger pocket than Burmese, and they double down being also much stronger as infantry/siege civ.
Burmese champs are nothing special. 1v1 they win just barely against Goths champ, so they’re not much efficient.
Why? Because they do 20 damage, meaning 5 hits to kill Goths champ, same number as every other champion.
And Burmese as civ in team games offers very little. Their power unit is too slow, meaning they’d probably be limited to Cavaliers as pocket, as flank they have terrible archers and their siege is mediocre at best. The best thing Burmese can do is monk rush.
1v1 unit calculator, hp remaining if both attack simultaneously at the first strike, champ vs Goths champ
Burmese/regular champ: 5hp
Japanese: 18hp
Vikings: 19hp
Aztecs: 18hp
Teuton: 15hp
Honorable mention: Bulgarian THS also demolishes goths Champs and Huskarls, plus their super Hussar can even kill them 1v1 (obviously die to halbs).
Burmese elephants are tanky against archers, they die to halbs really easily, expecially to heavy discounted, heavy spammable Goths’ halbs. Honestly I dont’ see Goths struggle that much against Burmese at all. Oh, I forgot Slavs, but I don’t know how Druzhina champs would fare, I suspect very good in big battles, plus some Boyars, if not met with appropriate halb response, can shred Goths infantry as well.
I wouldn’t say they are the ultimate counter but on closed maps where Goth lategame spam usually shines can a sudden Burmese switch to their champions definitely turn the game. Usually the Goth player is not prepared to quickly mass Onegars and a large group of Burmese Champions ripps through Goth infantry as well as castles…
I’d say Incas are a very strong anti-Goth civ too. Kamayuk + Slinger and the Goth flood will barely even manage to hit tanky Kamayuks. HC + BBC can be tricky for Incas, but it’s always painful to not go Infantry as Goths.
Teutons
Incas
Vikings
Slavs
Japanese
Aztecs
Burmese
Byzantines
All are extremely strong against Goths. Sure I forgot some others, too. But I wouldn’t make a big difference there, as it doesn’t really matter there “how much” they counter goths. Goths struggle against each of them.
I am not sure but if italian condettiro can beat goths champ in 1v1, best counter for goths is Italians 11 as long as you have gold.
FU Condottiero can beat any FU Champion (regular, no extra bonuses), so obviously can beat the Goths champs which lack even the last armor.
For 35 gold against 13, almost triple the cost. A good bargain 11
(I know you were joking)
Yeah but condettiro nearly kill all goth units: champs, huskarls, halbs, onagers, hussars, handconners. Only problem is goth knights 11. Just jokking.
Ig condos are good because you can have them ready while the Goth player is still busy getting all his ugrades.
Malians are also great against Goths. Gbetos counter Champs, Halbs and Huskarls. Franks can do something similar with a mass of Throwing Axemen, but they lack the mobility to hit and run Goths.
Slavs are underrated, with Druzhina+Farming Bonus Slavic Champions beat that soam easily
Did u mess your maths up? What u mean should be 17 per hit and 14 per hit, both 5 hits. However it is just an ideal assumption the war is arrow-free.
I didn’t mess up anything, just didn’t want to show all the numbers, but here they are.
Burmese does 13+7 = 20. Normal FU champion 13+4= 17.
Goths melee armor = 3.
Burmese damage after armor = 17, normal champion 14.
Goths champ has 70HP.
70/17= 4.11 => 5 hits.
70/14= 5 => 5 hits.
As you can see, it’s exactly as I said, 5 hits, the damage I listed was raw damage before armor, Burmese champion is “unlucky”, Aztec champion does just 1 more damage, but it’s enough to kill in 1 less hit. 21-3=18. 70/18 = 3.88 => 4 hits.
Obviously this doesn’t account flying arrows, mangonel shots, pathing problems, and so on, as real world physics experiment are in controlled environment, you can’t predict all the variables so I kept it simple.
But yes, arrows might fly, but on the other hand remember that Goths champion costs 35% less AND takes less than half the time to be trained.
On the now outdated aoestats the 5 worst matchups for Goths were Bulgarians, Teutons, Vikings, Malians and Japanese. Japanese had 46.47% win rate, Bulgarian was the worst with 42.12%.
I know aoestats are outdated, but ageofstatistics took down the civ matchup.
from this league, my only question is why malians… Gbeto?
There are many counters to goth spam and even íf burmese are not too bad, there are still better counters which have already been mentioned.
No. On top of +4 champs aztecs have jaguars which shreads infantry to pieces. Elephants or any cav is useless vs goths because spamming helbs is no big deal for them…if you upgrade elite battle elephant+ every upgrade you are playing in his cards…because he will have every infantry upgrade anyway and teching into helbs isnt expensive…and its fast.
On top of the civs which have already been mentioned i would also add bulgarians. Their 2hs should be better than most(maybe even every?) champs and on top of that i think their UU isn’t too bad, because u cant counter them with helbs alone.
Not only that, Bulgarians also have auto-upgraded infantry so you can pressure Goths in early age somewhat compensating the disadvantage of having more expensive infantry. And their Stirrups Hussars murder easily Champs and Huskarls, mixed with Bagains THS it’s really hard for Goths.
Yes most likely, Gbeto can counter any Goths infantry with some champskarl meat in front of them. Or alternatively even alone if you’re good with micro, since no Goths infantry would be ever able to catch them.
Plus Farimba Light cav can win 1v1 against Huskarls and almost win against champs.
Tbh I would prefer Burmese over Malians here. Because Burmese don’t need full upgrade to start mowing down Goth spam, while Malians need more upgrades and they need to manage a squishy unit that disappears the second you take your eyes off it.
It’s a possibility that the win rate was skewed by the old malian gold mining free upgrade that now is gone.
Those aoestats are outdated, since then Bulgarians even received extra armor on their THS for example, the matchup might be even worse for Goths against them now.
On the other hand Burmese received a big nerf to Manipur cavalry which is now totally useless against Goths.
Goths can spam Halbardiers too. Many users have shared their ideas here but let me tell you, there’s no counter for a Goth flood because there is absolutely no other civilization that can “flood” as them. Your only choice is to prevent them from reaching Imperial.