After the nerf I feel that making Leitis isn’t worth anymore, they now die too hard vs archers and even raiding with them isn’t viable , lefting Knights the only good raiders that Lithuanians have, but with the drawback that yo need way more to no fear against pikes, even building a castle as them isnt worth because for what? I can just mass Knights, collect relics and mass skirmishers or halbs and Bombard Cannons and still be good at Imperial Age without Leiciai, agaisnt TKs I simply can use hand cannons and vs Boyars I just mass halbs and Monks, what reasons left to use them lol, but at this point I feel like Leitis is back to the pre buff era.
And I talk for 1v1 no team games
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Leitis are good as a team game unit where trade can happen. War Elephants are far too costly in 1v1. Leitis cost-effectively beats paladins. (many other melee units) And even beats them 1v1. So you have what seems to be super camel unit that’s also good vs other units than just cavalry.
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Are there reasons to use them ? Yes, they are still strong in TGs against pure-melee civs like Franks, Teutons, Goth.
Is it a well designed unit ? No, they are useless in 90% of cases and unstoppable in 10%.
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I doubt that. Leitis always were good when no archers are on the field. That identity got heavily reinforced with the new patch. But “no archers on the field” is just not a situation you will often see in teamgames.
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are they though? arbs rip through them with ease. so i see them being a 1v1 unit for against the likes of Franks, Teutons, Bulgarians, etc.
except those team games will also have archer civs that will completely wreck them
unstoppable? no. camels and pikes/halbs still kill them.
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Well, if they fighting mass, brainless paladin spam. I sure they kill them pretty well.
well yeah but even if the pockets are going paladin, the flanks will still have archers that will wreck the Leitis. which is why in team games i see more “brainless Paladin spam” from Lithuanians then anything.
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Well, imho not too much has changed. The leitis were always crap vs archers and godly vs high armor melee units. They still are, they didnt even change in that regard. So vs civs that dont get decent archers and rely on melee, you can still use them just like before, vs anything else, they are worse than ever.
And how often do you see pure! palaspam in teamgames? 1, maybe 2 out of 4 players might go pala. But 4/4 going pala? Not gonna happen.
Well, if -1 pierce armor makes them useless, it was not such a great unit to begin with. In melee fights they are still the same. That makes them more situational, but that was exactly the intention of their nerf, they shouldn’t be a better version of the knight line in all circumstances.
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If they get their pierce amour back. What other way would you nerf them? Make them cost 10 extra gold? The guys who made the game think they were OP.
they were mediocre before if you ask me, you didn’t want them over paladins but you weren’t necessarily going to worry if your opponent made some archers to complement his melee. now they are just straight dead to them.
which is what some of us said about them pre nerf, if they are so good how come we aren’t see them all that often in tournaments?
and they weren’t. they were still harder to mass up, and performed worse vs archers, and had lower health.
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Lithuanians have:
Hand Cannoneers
Halbs
Essentially units that can counter the above mentioned melee civs that are much cheaper and faster to produce.
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There’s no statistical evidence that Leitis were OP (Leitis see no particularly high use in tournament play, and Lith pickrate in TGs is average). I don’t see the need for a nerf at all.
Comparing with other UUs: Mangudai and Chukonus see more use than Leitis. Huskarls are made in 100% of Goth games, and Goth are OP in many situations (low Elo, certain matchups).
Yet I haven’t seen nerfs to those units.
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So why do you think they nerfed them? Discussing why the nerf should be reverted without understanding why the decision was made is pointless IMO. It might be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I think it’s good they made them a more situational unit. They still have their strength (strong melee attack). I also think it is an exaggeration to call them useless now, it doesn’t hurt Lithuanians as a civ all that much.
There are only a handful of UU you often see in tournaments. That is not the only deciding factor in unit strength. Also, Lithuanians were a popular pick in recent tournaments, so a slight nerf could be expected.
But isn’t that some weird logic? “The civ is a bit too strong, so lets nerf a unit they never build anyways” doesnt sound like a good aproach, does it? Its like nerfing Goth by taking away Parthian Tactics.
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Leitis is not a unit that was never built. If you have a good alternative, you can suggest something different. Just complaining that a nerf is bad is not constructive. (I don’t mean you personally, but this topic in general.)
Not playing Lithuanians a lot, but personally I think it was a good change. Leitis is now not another Knight variation but more like a Camel for melee units. They basically counter every melee unit and they are super cheap. If the armor change would be reverted, the cost would have to be adjusted too. And then why make Knights when Leitis does the same but better?
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No they are not. In TGs where you have Trade, you will have Paladins, and Lith Paladins are way better than Leitis now.
Lithuanians are now just like Spanish or Teutons, a Paladin civ that makes the most stupid OP unit in the game.
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Except they also have arguably the best early game bonus out of the paladin civs and exceptional trash. I think Lithuanians might be a really good civ with a lot of options.
Not every UU can be a main unit, espescially if it fills a semi trash role (comparable to militia line maybe?)