Title says it all. When there are so many civs who’s entire gameplan is fending off early pressure to snowball a strong strat, a map that keeps anyone from harassing their early eco is insane. I tried keeping it in my map rotation to avoid becoming that guy that just plays arabia/open maps but it’s 100% for cheeseballs that just alt f4 all the open maps when they get them.
Maybe a double set of palisades or fortified palisades to make it more defensible than the average walljob on arabia, but automatic stone walls are just not fun.
EDIT: For clarification, because my wording sounds like I wanted traditional Arena nuked from the game files altogether, I’m referring to replacing Arena with a Palisade version in matchmaking. Not making a permanent change to arena
Could be a possible future map script, though leave Arena alone the way it is. It’s supposed to be a slower map. Not every map has to be extremely aggressive.
I get that not every map needs to be crazy aggro, but stone walls guaranteeing safety until castle age (usually) at the earliest is nuts.
Double palisades or fortified palisades would allow for late feudal pressure without allowing drush or early feudal rushes still
I get that people like classic arena as a fun map but it really strikes me as more of a team game or custom game lobby map than something that should be in 1v1 what with how the game is balanced against early vs late game civs. Both choices are valid on open maps but only one is viable on arena and that’s not the case with something like hideout or hill fort. Dark/Feudal age stone walls are just way too drastic imo
Hideout is considered the palisade version of Arena.
I agree with @Szaladon that Arena is intentionally designed around stone wall builds and strategies.
No. There should be some other version with said walls. Leave Arena alone.
Ok well then I guess the question/assertion is “Should Arena be in the map rotation?/Arena isn’t a good fit for 1v1 ranked”
For non rush games. A mix between open and non rush. So you can’t end the game by a scout rush so early.
I don’t like Arena too.
But it’s meant to be like that. An Arena’s player could argue the same and ask to palisade arabia…
Just leave like it is and play other maps.
Maybe it’s my Smash Bros background showing (No items, fox only, final destination 11) but something like arena which so heavily favors certain playstyles and by extension civs just doesn’t seem like a good fit for matchmaking even with the striking system, I know civs are more pick up and play than a Smash character but entire civs getting shut down by a map that appears in ranked just seems bonkers and uncompetitive.
There are certain civs which definitely benefit from the Stone walls which wouldn’t be as viable on completely open maps like Arabia.
I know that multiplayer enthusiasts prefer completely open map, but there should definitely be also other types of maps too. Else what is the point of different map script.
Sure, they can release “Wooden Arena” as map, but leave classic Arena alone please.
You have to remember that you have time before the match starts to pick your civ, so just pick an arena/strong civ
Hideout be like… am I a joke to you?
Answer: it’s the second most popular map after Arabia, and the only one that remained in the map pool ever since DE’s release.
Also it’s not because it prevents dark and feudal age agression it’s not interesting, as it allows for different strats from open maps without being just a boomfest a la blackforest.
There’s a map from Chrazini that like that. It’s called big freeze
This is literally the purpose of the map. Ban it if you don’t want to play it.
there can be a different map with weaker walls, but arena should stay as it is
and arena should be removed from ranked
arena was never meant to be competitive. it was always an alternative mode (like death match / empire wars / battle royale) and should be treated as such
but sadly, ranked is not a reflection of competitive RM. honestly the map pool is mostly just revisionist history by some devs who are trying to present arabia+arena+blackforest as what the game is about when that couldn’t be further from the truth
the game was made for exploring unknown maps with some random geography where offense+defense+economy+army+navy were all options and you had to balance between them (hence, the strategy part of the real-time strategy game)
forcing people to play these pre-walled or pre-explored maps without any geography and without all those options makes the game more like michi players’ fanfiction rather than the definitive edition of aoe2
there should be separate queues so that people who want to play those maps can always play them, but mixing them with normal RM maps doesn’t really make that much sense
This is much more eloquently put than what I said but is pretty much exactly how I feel. Prewalls feel like they should be their own option ala death match or whatever the imp start mode is called. I can deal with a palisade start because it doesn’t entirely shut down certain strats but stone walled bases from square 1 is an entirely different game than 99% of AOE maps
Arena has had entire pro-level tournaments. Also arena or Fortress feature in multi-map tournaments quite often. So I wouldn’t consider Arena to be non competitive. Also a significant portion of the player base seems likes this map.
Arena has no player interaction for the first 14 minutes, but then there is a rich variety of strategies possible from that point onwards. To start, one needs to learn how to do loomless 24+2 or 23+2 castle age (within 13-14 minutes). Then you can open scouts+monk or archers+monks to get relic control. Or you can try to build an aggresive castle. Or a defensive castle. Or you can give up relics and do a full boom. Or hit the imperial age quick and push with eagle warriors or hand cannoneers. All these strategies have the different mix of offense+defense+economy+army that you desired. To play arena properly, one needs to learn the Arena meta game. You simply cannot apply arabia strategies to arena. But this is also true for water maps.
Note: This is not true for black forest. That map is actually boring.
I myself prefer arabia over arena. But I cannot see the devs removing it from the game at this point. Too many players like it.
@SurfaceTen38 you mentioned that you don’t want to play only arabia like maps all the time. But this comes at the cost of learning the meta in all maps that you don’t ban if you want to win.
What a nonsense! Read again what you just wrote. If you still believe that is right, then you have no idea about arena, DM or empire wars. Comparing those with battle royale… which in my opinion is like scenario (CBA…) and still could be kinda competitive, you may not like them, but cmon man! be serious.
Regarding the topic, I think arena should keep the stone walls but have an empire wars start to speed things up.
If you go look at the AoK/AoC map selection from when they first launched Arena does stand out as a lone anomaly among the maps. I think it’s fair the devs intended to be a very different experience than a typical game, shirking the meta SO hard does make it a very different and arguably uncompetitive experience