Armenian Ranged Siege Tweak

It seems to be a consensus among folk I’ve talked to that the Armenians tend to get severely bodied whenever in a matchup against a ranged civ. I’ve seen a lot of suggestions on how to fix this, most of which revolve around pumping up cavalry options - but I think this would fundamentally change the design of the civ.

Wondering about thoughts on this change though - let Scorpions and Onagers get the extra 1 damage projectile in the same manner as Galleys and Dromons respectively. It’s not huge, especially if the civ still gets locked out of Siege Onager and Siege Engineer. But for the Heavy Scorpions it might be a fun little addition - I’ve found myself relying on scorpions often to try and punch back against crossbow civs.

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I like the Mangonel buff, but Scorpions firing extra projectiles is a core part of Khmer Scorpions’ identity.


Thanks for the reply! I see what you’re saying, but to clarify, by extra projectile I was suggesting a single arrow like the Galley, not the half-strength double projectile like Khmer.

I think the easiest fix for Armenians would be a Bonus to their Mangonel line.
Which exactly is tough to say. I would have given them Extra HP, but that would have kind of an overlap with Celts Furor Celtica.
Though ofc we already have examples of overlapping civ and UT bonusses.

Maybe it’s jsut a matter of time until devs finally change the mangonel line anyways, i already see the dromon concept as one that could work for mangonels, too.
And then ofc the mentioned extra projectile would make a lot of sense for Armenians.


How viable or overpowered would it be if they had a bonus like “ranged siege benefits from archer armor upgrades”?

It would only be 1 less melee armor than Ironclad tho, so maybe not for this civ that has ring archer armor and an archer UU, but maybe it would be fine idk, they don’t get bombard cannons OR siege onager after all

If not for Armenians, it would be a really cool bonus for a future civ, maybe also have rams affected by inf armor upgrades

Nerf the water a bit and buff the siege.

  • No additional projectile as civ bonus.
  • Cilician (Siege) Engineers
    Replacing Cilician Fleet, gives Scorpion-line +2 and Galley-line +1 range, and gives Dromons and Onager-line additional projectiles.

The problem with Armenians is that Militia are quite strong offensively, but very weak defensively. This explains why they are poor early on, as they are largely unable to defend themselves, especially against enemy archers.

The simplest tweak? Let them build their Fortified Churches(with garrison and damage but no monks or research) in Feudal. This fixes their weakness to raiding without breaking them in the lategame.


  • First Fortified Church receives a free relic. → First Fortified Church may be built in the Feudal Age, and receives a free relic.

Give them siege rams as well.