As mongols when should I transition to mangudai?

So as mongols I usually open man at arms into archers, then go crossbow in castle age. In imp I grab the arbalast upgrade and fight with it for a bit. I usually end up having to stick with arbs cos I havn’t been able to tech switch to mangudai quivk enough.

I know that the mongol late game is meant to be hussar/seige onager/mangudai. But im not sure when is a good point to switch from xbow to mangudai. Is castle age mangudai worth it? I could mass way more xbows and pikes seam to counter them if you dont micro super well withoit parthian tactics.

It depends, as always. First off all, are you going maa to surprise your opponent who’s expecting scouts? Because the Mongol scout rush is their signature opening, for a reason since it is so fast. Just curious.

In any case, mangudai, just like CA, need to be massed to be effective,and require a lot of upgrades. That means you not only need time to mass them but also time to boom your economy to afford the upgrades and multiple castles (you want to have at least 3). Tech-switching into mangudai therefore leaves you vulnerable while you do it until you reach a critical mass where they become strong.

Therefore, the best time to tech switch into mangudai is when you have secured a lead on your opponent. If you sc rush and do damage, then stay ahead in feudal and get to castle age fiest, you are in a good position, for example. Else you can use xbow to get a lead. It’s worthwhile to drop a tc on stone with Mongols in castle age, to secure stone for castles while booming. Castles are best placed safely too (you dont want to lose them ofc).

Mangudai are a very strong unit that is easily microed so even in smaller numbers they are effective. If you start castle age with them, take small numbers and raid your opponent to slow him down, buying you more time. Preserving numbers is key.

That said, playing arbalest is totally justifiable with mongols as every game is different and sometimes you can’t get to mangudai - but you do indeed want to get there if possible, it’s just that strong.

Tl;dr: get a lead, the switch into mangudai and raid your opponent while you boom.

I can never really get a scoutrush to work, they just wall up either in advance or quickwall making my scoutrush pointless my men at arms can break the walls easy and you can make them in dark as well. Im playing mongols in 2v2s cos I found brits to be a bit weak in post imp games with trade, wanted something that played simular but had a better post imp deathball.

I assume mangudai need thumb ring? I know that normal cav archers are useless without it.

If you use the special 17 pop scout rush with Mongols, oftencase you can catch your opponents before they finish walling their base. If you play on more open maps like the new arabia, this will work better too. Even if you don’t kill villagers, just running around and forcing them into quickwalls and spears causes all sorts of idle time that delays the opponent’s economy. If you keep your scouts alive and then add an archery range and some archers/skirmishers, you can snipe their spearmen and stop them from walling. At some point, they will make a mistake in defending - and this is when you can do damage and gain the lead.

Since you said you play a lot of 2v2, in that case I’d say team up with your team mate who is presumably making archers (if you go scouts). If you coordinate your attack it will force your opponents to defend wherever you go, or they will take heavy losses.

Mangudai definitely need thumb ring, the faster firing is important when microing.

If you are playing 2v2, consider making some synergy between you and your ally. Tower rushing one of the players can be very strong, since Mongols can send Scouts to support it very fast. You can essentially take out a player from the game in feudal. Transitioning to Mangudai would be late castle. In early castle you usually wont want to invest into building a castle and getting a ton of upgrades all at once. You can go Knights to buy yourself some time while you switch. So if you pick up any upgrades in feudal, it should be just bloodlines most of the times.

Yea this is the real key, people often have a tough time hitting you while your weak if you constantly have 5-10 mangudai hitting woodlines and retreating before any damage happens. Prioritise husbandry for this reason (can keep them alive more that bloodlines sometimes! although hopefully you already picked up bloodlines as you go up to castle, or during feudal scout pressure).
Preserving numbers is so important.

If you force the enemy into counter skirm then all the better! it really slows enemies down and hurts their boom and your mobility will win, just never engage the ball of skirms and run around the outside of the base, hitting anything and retreating, and you always have an easy hussar switch in imp for when you need to deal killing blow against mass skirms.

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I think you are generally supposed to switch to mangudai when you click imperial age, and the reason is mongol units have full upgrades in castle age… but in imperial age pretty much anything you can mass will miss upgrades so you have to finally make the only good unit this civ has.
I imagine castle age mangudai are supposed to lose to xbows which is the most common unit.

Open scouts, transition to skirms if needed, continue with knights and camels, put your second or third TC on stone depending on how the game is going. Aim to have at least a dozen mangudai when you reach imp, but your main unit should still be knights/cavaliers/camels. Mangudai are too expensive to be used in the castle age and need way too many upgrades for the eco you have after putting down a castle.

Idk if steppe lancers are viable but would be a nice middle ground between not getting the last armor and compensating with the 30% HP and also using a gold unit because gold units are better than hussars.

t. played mongols exclusively for a year at a decent level

Hi, is mongol cavalry bad without the last armor, because I like them but im not sure if theyre good, also I like a good cavalry and archer civ, people recommended magyars and tatars.

its good at being the meatshield in front of your CA/Mangudai.