Fair points, the goal was to keep it as similar to the current Daimyos as possible while compensating for them becoming invincible. Daimyos are already essential and annoying so I don’t think it makes Japan any worse, but it also doesn’t make them any less annoying. A change to how Daimyos work would probably be needed to make them less annoying. Maybe just removing their auras altogether would work. That way every battle wouldn’t just be a rush to snipe them out.
I think the solution for Japan is pretty simple: Only allow one daimyo, which can be trained/shipped from the shogunate, and then add new cards to open up new strategies, similar to how China and Birtish were treated lately. I am not yet sure what the cards should be, but that is brainstorming for another thread. Particularly, Japan need a viable alternative to shrine booming. One that is not an all-in (maybe increase food gathering speed but also increase shrine cost idk).
Once new strategies open up, we can start messing with some of the more annoying things.
You also need to keep in mind that the golden pavilion aura is just another way of doing what other Asia civs do via cards or consulate, so in that regard, it isn’t anything special. Tying it to the daimyo is an unnecessary nerf.
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I just don’t like the idea of pseudo-heroes like Daimyos and Mansabdars. They should just be proper heroes, and making them replacements for weird mystical monk heroes kills two birds with one stone.
I’ve got some ideas for reducing Shrine booming but that does need a new thread. The most obvious thing would be to separate Shrines from Houses. Making Shrines more like Mountain Monasteries and having Kannushi function like Abuns could be one way to go with it.
What bothers me about Golden Pavilion is just how inconsistent it is. Maybe if there were other buildings where you selected bonuses it would make more sense (that could make sense for Arsenals). Right now it just kind of an oddity that would probably just work better with a passive bonus.
How is it inconsistent? it works exactly like factories or community plaza.
There are lots of buildings comparable to Factories and Golden Pavilion is definitely not one of them. The Community Plaza does have some similar function so I guess it isn’t totally out of place.
This is the problem, hero ransom cost is very low and very quick. A timed respawn adds a required waiting period so that a very powerful unit can’t be easily spammed. The main unique feature of heroes is their charged ability not respawn mechanic.
The Manchus conquered the Ming at the start of the timeframe, so at that point they would have very much been warriors. Even if they were all a bunch of softies the name doesn’t need to be a sticking point, just call it a “General” instead of a “Prince”. All I’m going for is that they would be some rank that is part of the warrior elite.
Zamindars were Emirs, Masabdars were Emirs, a lot of minor rulers were Emirs. It is a title as generic as Explorer was used anywhere from Morocco to India.
Increase the price. There you are.
Just blindly wanting a Chinese general or military leader but not caring that the current mechanic of Master (Caravan Leader) and Disciple (Caravan Member) is a big feature of the Chinese. What’s more, they are not culturally suitable to be the leader of the new town.
Don’t keep craving change, but let go of the good elements that don’t need to be changed.
The emphasis is on the name of the unit. If they are different units with different abilities, they should not have the same name to avoid confusing players.
Because Hausa hero is already named Emir, I suggest that Indian one not be called Emir.
This is a design philosophy issue, not a historical and cultural issue.
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Let them as they are, easy. Auto Respawn is an african thing while natives have to use the firepit.
Asian civs are built around religion: porcelain tower, great budha, temple of heaven, tori gates, karni mata, charmine gate, white pagoda, toshogu shrine… and their heroes are related to asian maps and their temples as euro explorers were related with native americans. Their embassys, now that they can build them should be small temples instead of bungalows.
This is the main reason to forbid hunting animals for japanese and herdables for indians.
Not everything has to be unique to Africans. The Asians and Europeans share a respawn method so there’s no reason they can’t instead share with the Africans. This would only be needed if Daimyos became their heroes and continued to be as powerful as they are. If Daimyo heroes weren’t too powerful, respawning could remain the same.
And this doesn’t work very well. Half the Wonders are different religions from their heroes and their “Monastery” is a glorified tavern without monks. Meanwhile they have what should actually be their leaders as annoying pseudo-heroes that buff units.
The Mexicans with their Padre and Cathedral are a good example of how to do a religious civ theme correctly, the Asian civs are not.
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Fair point but the only difference between them would be the Chaos ability vs the Stun ability so it wouldn’t be cause for a ton of confusion. Elephant vs horse wouldn’t be much different than the mounted Lakota vs the footsoldier Aztec Warchief.
There’s also the case of the Emir and Ras being the same unit with different names. If naming consistently was a priority, they should just be “Princes”.
Why?? They do for 15 years, I think that can be longer. In India nowdays there are people from diverse religions, same for Japan amd China. In Spain there are pagodas, churches and mosques but we keep with their inquisition meme (Mx being that catholic keeps with that while there arent witchhunting in protestant lands).
About auras, they are related to the religions (so, monks make sense).
About mansabdars and daymios, I would just remove the artillery training or limit it to 5 per batch.
Japanese players need to pay for them already and they need the shogunate alived, so dont need any change in my opinion.
Mansabdars are ridicoulously easy to nullify as most of them are infantry, they need a buff instead, maybe being like atlanteans heroes from AoM (with train time).
American civs flags are worse by a great difference.
A poor design choice from 15 years ago is still a poor design choice. In a few years people will say “Inspiring Flags have worked like this for years so they shouldn’t be changed?” but that doesn’t make them less silly. Sure it kinds works gameplay wise (at least for India and China) and people are used to it now but it’s still really dumb. Even then, Japanese smoke bombs and Daimyo are a lot more annoying than they need to be.
The monks don’t have auras in the game, I’m not sure what you’re meaning. Daimyos, Mansabdar, Warchief, African heroes, and Flags have them, so not really a religious theme there.
The Spanish Inquisition isn’t really a big trope in the game. Unction is the only relevant religious card and it’s not Inquisition related. Witch hunts weren’t a unique Protestant thing either, they happened in Catholic countries too and were more about power than religion.
Liechtenstein witch trials - Wikipedia.
The Mexicans aren’t just portrayed that way because they are majority Catholic. It’s intertwined with their culture and politics. The Padre isn’t some generic Catholic priest equivalent to Asian Monks, he’s based on one of their country’s founders:
Balance wise these units aren’t anything special (other than the artillery training). Their problem is them being very tedious and annoying. A simplification like rolling their function into hero units could make the game a lot more fun if done correctly.
I agree 100%, Inspiring Flags are one of the dumbest things in the game. I think a better approach would be to have Generals garrison in Forts to turbo charge them. They could hoist the flag over the Fort and greatly improve its attack and training speed.
Monks do get auras through cards.
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Poor or not poor is something subjective, if the asian civs/maps are related to religion it makes sense
Dukha suffering like cards
You said it, Unction is a thing.
Why are they annoying?? I can understand daymios but japan has slow train times, maybe I would move the shipments thing to IV.
Religious settlements works for the maps, but a hybrid of natives and religious orders like African maps would work even better. Just like the African style heroes would work better for Asians. It was a rushed DLC from years ago and a lot of improvements have been made since then.
I stand corrected on the Monk auras. Looks like India has a couple upgrades and Japan has a card.
Unction has nothing to do with the Inquisition and Missionaries aren’t Monks. I’m not sure what your point is.
Shipments and training and auras is a bit much for one unit. Not too fun to deal with a unit that can dump a huge army in the back of your base and then also buff them.
Mansabdars are extremely tedious. You need to pick them to match your army composition, make sure they get to and stay with your army, and then make sure they stay alive. They blend in with your other units and are a pain to identify for both the players. They demand much more attention than a passive buff or other things that project auras like Daimyos, Missionaries, Inspiring Flags, and buildings.
An Ochaya could be a good Tavern equivalent for Japanese. They were Teahouses where Geisha performed so it would fit with the dance hall and theater theme of Taverns and Saloons.
I do think that Chinese should get a separate healer having healing locked away by a wonder is problematic.
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Rework of Taverns discussed in more detail here:
Not really sure.
They are more built on a colonial stereotypical western perspective, rather than any religious one.
And it is fine to some extent , as these were the worst centuries for these Asian nations through out their whole history. And alot of changes happened in each of them.
But as a the game goes, some rework for Asian would be really great, irrespective of religious representation (Lets say its not DEV’s forte) .
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teach me how to change models/animatiom and swap parts and I could mod a more accurate hero units, (just using existing assets)