Asymmetric Militia line upgrade (like Hussar vs Winged Hussar) for civs with bad stable

and sc2 has 55 units. still, when you consider that aoe2 has 57 unique units alone.

I think militia line could be splitted with really good results. Actually i made a topic about it.

This is my proposal for a new barracks tree

Spearman-Line: Nerf cost +15 Food

Militia»MAA»New Castle upgrade: new cost 60F 20W, low hp, good speed, low attack, no melee armor, good but not excels PA. Bonus against siege.
Weak vs almost everything. Good to harass and rinding.

Longswordsman»THS»Champion: New cost 75 F 35 G. Armor 2/0»2/1»3/1. Good HP and high attack but slow. Bonus against standard buildings and eagles.
Weak vs crossbows. Weak vs Knights in small numbers.

New Line
Shieldman»Heavy Shieldman: 65F 35W. Armor 3/2»4/2. Low base attack, low speed. High Bonus against infantry. Weak vs cavalry and siege.

Supplies affect all barrack’s units(-15 Food cost). Arson removed. LS line gain +1 against buildings with upgrades.

Why spearman needs a nerf?

Why so many different line with almost the same role?


Because infrantry civ does not have a semi tank maybe? Hussar is actually a prefect semi tank for calvary civ

‘Shieldman’ feels like a really unnatural name to me. It’s not really in common usage, plus it doesn’t distinguish the unit because Men-at-Arms and Long Swordsmen already have shields. What weapon would it have?


Mace or hammer will work.we dont have a unit armed with those weapons yet.

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That semi-tank can be done by 2 infantry + spearman. No need for the 3rd shieldman.

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yes agree maybe adding Condottiero is enough

Condo as a generic unit for everyone?

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It is a kind of scouts open start buffing. Maybe not necesary, but still no big deal, because Supplies is available for most civs…

Is not the same role… clearly they have distinct roles.

New trash militia line is cheap and fast. A trash rinding alternative for infantry civs with weak stables .

New gold Longswordsman line is an all-rounded infantry. You can see it as a dismounted knight, without the mobility but more damage and melee armor. Like today, but buffed. Which is posiible thanks to the new trash counter unit, the shieldman.

This is what I’m talking about with Shieldman. Slow, tanky, low dps but bonus against infantry. Specially Slow infantry

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Well that’s a good way of buffing Scout Rush, ngl.

It is actually a very big deal. You are forcing supply cost to spearman player who 90% of the time would never pick the tech anyway. Spearman already slows down your Castle age timing by a lot. 35 food is no joke in Feudal. And you’re buffing to 50 means creating spearman is a suicidal thing. Also missing the tech will be very big nerf for those civs.

The only way this can be balanced by spearman cost more in Feudal age only and automatically drops the cost into normal once Castle age is reached. We don’t have such mechanic in game yet. And at best it can be 5 more food, 40f/25w in Feudal. Drops to regular 35f/25w in Castle age.


Ah yes.

Reading IS a skill it seems…

I never said make the urumi arrow resistant :roll_eyes: please read

Please tell me which arrow resistant regional units do we have? Nevermind regional arrow resistant infantry?

While we have 3 arrow sponge UU infantry, you want to make a 4th(how high does this number go if we include UU cavalry?). While we only have 3 civs sharing the same regional eagle.

Please, obviously you need to be right by both ignoring what I say and or bending it to make me wrong. Go on.

I’m sorry guys this is bias thinking

The same logic some of you applied to total war, applies here, once you know how to deal with archers ,it’s similar or same logic to the rest. You can use onagers, skirms, hussars on plumes or rattans or arbs.

When you deal with cav it’s the same thing with halbs and camels.

Yes there are some units with special cases to deal with them, but it’s still roughly the same mechanic

Not the same with SC because of what the units do. And that was my point. The game can have very different usage of units yet that is NOT gatekeeping players.

I never said SC is appealing because of the variety of units, I said it didn’t stop it from being more popular

Probably should’ve used the word popular. Considering by playerbase size, price of games AND DLCs (meaning people are CURRENTLY spending more money on them) and forum sizes. I could buy aoe2 four times over for the price of Warhammer 3, nevermind all the DLCs and previous titles

Someone can do the math, but it doesn’t take a genius to work out theres much more money in it than aoe2

Total war active members is about 6 times the sIze of aoe2 on Reddit for example.

I find it actually more strategical… You can choose to train only a few spearmans or go for supplies if you correctly scout your oponent and see that will go for more scouts… And plus, scouts are easly counter by some palisades correctly placed and a few spearmen… Plus, is more easy suspect an scout opening because up timing… I don’t see the problem with give spearms a little nerf. Scouts are much more intensive in terms of food costing.

I appreciate editing out the hokey “my son” stuff, as I’m already taken, and will never call a man “daddy” :joy:

AFAIK you never commented on changing pierce armor specifically, but the roles you suggested it in (raiding, anti-siege) very strongly imply being significantly more arrow-resistant than it is now (and the unit suggested here is that is “competing” with Urumi for being changed to fill this role is clearly designed as arrow resistant.) So while I may have (slightly) misunderstood your intentions for the unit, this is hardly the “gotcha!” moment you’re trying to make it given your own lack of clarity. The broader and more important point that I’ve already made is I don’t like giving another regional unit to a civ that already has 3, when the civ’s problems could be solved more simply and with less unit bloat.

Okay, so you don’t want to bloat the ranks of archer resistant UU unnecessarily? I understand and agree. So how is it a worse idea to give a unit like that to 1 civ (Dravidians via a reworked Urumi) than to 3+ civs (via a semi-unique or “regional” unit)?? You’re entitled to your preference of course, I just don’t find you applying logical standards with any level of consistency.

I never said that was my favored solution :roll_eyes: please read.
I’ve also already clarified this a few times, so your repeatedly ignoring it isn’t exactly evidence you’re discussing in good faith. My preferred way of fixing the Dravidians is solely by giving them more Stable upgrades, BBC, and possibly SE. I only suggested putting Urumi into a similar role because I think its an acceptable compromise if you insist on buffing them via a UU/RU instead of techs, and I’ve seen you and others advocate for a similar idea elsewhere, so I thought it would be seen as meeting you halfway. (Again, not my preferred solution, or one I would ever advocate for over just giving them more techs, since it seems I have to say this many times before it registers).

The projection is strong with this one. :rofl: Keep on this road long enough, and I see a promising career in politics.

Spearman counters not just scout but all cav units. 50 food per spearman for no supplies civ is just a dead end. And you are, for no reason, buffing knight players.

Not necessary and no need to be done. Scout rush not being a good opening needs to be dealt with some other way like giving Hindustanis TB to them by default.

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As you wish master… Anyway, is not the main core of the proposition, but if you want to focus on that and distort your own thread is ok.

it’s about nuance. say i have a mid sized ball of arbs, and a good sized group of enemy cavalry is coming my way.
am I fighting say a knight with 4 PA or a Cavalier with 6 PA? right now that’s pretty easy. because knights look like knights, and cavalier look like…cavalier.
now imagine we have 6 different looks JUST for the knight line. it isn’t so easy anymore to know what i am fighting and how to counter it. And that’s just 1 unit line. You want different unit skins for different units? GO ahead. CLIENT SIDE ONLY, DLC ONLY. ONLY THOSE WHO WANT IT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.
There is literally zero downside this way. if you want all your units to be more historically correct you have it.
and those who care for a more classic, easier to read style? they have it.

except literally one of the common complaints about sc2 is how hard it is for new players to get into the game, EVEN by RTS standards. and that’s literally with 3 factions only.

Why would this guy’s spear have a bonus against infantry but a spearman’s spear has a bonus against cavalry? (I realise I could ask a similar question about the Ghulam…) But in any case, my issue was mostly the name: ‘Shieldman’ just sounds weird to me.

You seem very concerned about this, and I really don’t think you need to be. All graphics in AoE2 are client-side only. Changing to server-side graphics would require huge changes to the way the game handles graphics, for no obvious gain. There’s just no way the devs are going to do that, and no reason to think that regional unit graphics would give them motivation to do so.

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