Aztec Coyotes can't properly counter Skirmishers+Cannon

No, No, totally No. Coyote is not an infantry nor a heavy infantry. It is a “SHOCK” infantry. You are totally ignorant about the game. Skirm deals only 75% damage to Coyote and no Cannon has bonus damage against Coyote. In 3 seconds, one Coyote can deal more than 4 Skirms(one melee, three range). This is the reason why Coyote is a counter unit of Skirm.

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Lol, runners arent infantry and skirmishers havent any bonus against coyotes

1 answer: war song, with this they have 54 attack, thats enough to kill skirmishers quickly.

I don’t want to be rude, but I believe that these kinds of forum post often originate from player lacking basic knowledge of the game. You can’t propose seriously that the coyote range resistance be buffed to 0.40… For a spammable unit costing mostly food a little wood. Maybe your military defeats rather originate from a lack of skill and a poor economy on your part ? Regarding canon, arrow knight have 30 range and are outstanding to kill canon. You should combine several units to counter a diversified army.

In age 3, Coyote runner have 194 hp, a 0.10 range resistance and do 22.5 damage.
In age 3, skirmisher have 144 hp and do 18 damage with a 0.75 damage malus against coyote. Factoring the 10% ranged resistance of the coyote, it results in approximately 12 damage. You need 16 skirmishers to one shot a elite veteran coyotte, but only 7 melee attack (which are twice as fast as range attack) to kill a veteran skirmisher with your elit coyote. In addition, coyote are somewhat cheaper (85 food and 25 wood) versus (50 food and 65 gold), because you gather food quicker than any other ressources (excluding gold for the dutch).


Pretty certain this is about late game. Fortress age does not qualify as late game. In industrial age, Coyotes are pretty weak against the royal guard skirmishers, and they still suffer from heavy cannon AOE, despite no bonuses.

They need buffs late game in order to stay viable.

Once again, against canon you have arrow knight which is an amazing unit. You have 4 cards that boost them, and they have a 1.5 ROF… I’m sure you can use arrow knight to counter skirmisher somewhat satisfactory. Like every artillery unit, heavy canon have a damag cap, which means it is limited to the amount of damage it can make in one shot. With 4 area damage, the coyote are not more vulnerable that any cav units.

Late game, coyote (industrial age with +20%hp card) have 263.5 hp (way more than a guard musketeer) and they cost basically only food. Seems fine to me.

I am not saying they should not be buffed, I just think that +0.3 range resistance is insane for a spammable unit, and I believe the OP did not think this through (especilly when it is apparent that he/she do not have basic knowledge about how damage multiplier works for coyote)

So, is this wrong? All Aztec units are infantry units.

This is the example I was talking about, good players always put skirmishers infront and AK get outranged.

And if you thinking of using coyotes from behind halberdier will protect…

In late game they cost gold, and as soon a they get spammed they die vs Skirm + Cannon combo. It’s like wasting 5500 resources every 50 coyos.

That’s in an ideal case, but in real gameplay not all coyotes can hit the skirmishers, and there is the fact that when they approach they get all wrecked with cannons, almost half of them die on 1st shot.

The thing is, they have atack but no resistance. And ranged units can hit them before they deal any damage. On 1st shot of cannons a lot of them die.

They are, because they are infantry units.

So what should be done, because obviously they need more ARMOR or HP.

So where it says 3X Bonus Damage against (infantry)… that’s different than (shock infantry).

Shock infantry is not a part of infantry. This is a little confusing due to the similar name.

Make a halberdier and it will say it has a bonus vs (shock infantry).

In the game files, the horse artillery has this attack:

Horse Artillery Cannon Attack
      <damagebonus type="AbstractInfantry">3.000000</damagebonus>
      <damagebonus type="Building">2.000000</damagebonus>
      <damagebonus type="Ship">3.000000</damagebonus>
      <damagebonus type="xpArrowKnight">0.500000</damagebonus>

Note that this affects AbstractInfantry. This is the (infantry) tag you see in the tool tip.

These are the tags for coyote runners:

Coyote Tags

Note the LACK of AbstractInfantry. Cannons do NOT have a bonus on coyotes, or eagles.

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What is this part about?

Coyote Men and Eagle Men are cavalry. That artillery bonus does not apply to them.

So they cav, but they are not cav. o.O

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This mean that the Horse Artillery have x3 damage against Infantry.

Coyotes are not Infantry but have the rare class of Shock Infantry.
Look at the difference for the stats of the Ottoman Great Bombard:

That unit does not have positive bonuses, put negatives ones that reflects how regular cannons work.
As you can see, the Bombard only does half damage to cavalry AND shock infantry.

The bonuses don’t really matter. The problem is CR are melee and are small, so they will naturally lose against ranged AOE.
Hand cavalry doesn’t have this issue cause they are melee, big and tanky.

Before arguing that you shouldn’t win with 1 unit type against a combo of 2, remember hand cavalry can wreck skirmishers + cannons without breaking a sweat.

A buff to the Coyote Runner that would be odd, but hit all the points that make them weak, would be to make their spacing between units larger. As it is, their tight spacing (regardless of negative multipliers artillery have against them) it only takes 3-4 artillery units to blow a hole through them, as they’re so tightly clustered by default settings that they’re easily crushed by AOE damage.

Buff them with a small health buff (maybe 15-20 more base health) and space them out more with their default stance. That would make them stronger into artillery and skirmisher.

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Yes. This has been well-known since 2006. Obviously the coyote men aren’t literally cavalry since they lack horses but for game purposes they act like and are treated as cav. They are fast and wreck skirms and artillery, and are weak to pikes, therefore they’re cav.

If I was playing a team game and my Aztec teammate said he was making cav, I would know he is speaking of coyote men.

Eagle runners are dragoons.

“Shock infantry” is a made-up term for DE to describe coyote men which imo makes it more confusing than it was before. Shock infantry = heavy cav. If you find it hard to understand just pretend they are like the guy in Monty Python pretending to ride horses.

I don’t know how much more literal I have to be here.

“AbstractInfantry” is not the same as “AbstractLightInfantry”. Just like how “Hamburger” is not the same as “Steak”. Since coyotes do not have the tag “AbstractInfantry” they do not take additional damage.

Coyote runners have always been treated similarly to cavalry and ARE NOT infantry for purposes of bonus damage. This is a very basic concept for understanding the Aztecs.

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I reiterate guys, the best way to destroy artillery with Aztecas, is with Arrow Knight, or with the Aztec WC, which tank a lot and with a couple of hits can kill any artillery if you place the Community Plaza in HP increase mode for the WC. Coyote racers as mentioned above, can be spammed efficiently in a late game and have very acceptable upgrades. The same thing happens to the Incas with the chimu runners, there comes a point that you must use huaracas because the chimu does not arrive.