They get totally wrecked once you try to attack, and they are supposed to be the perfect counter vs skirmishers and cannons. To make it even worse, the pathfinding of the game makes them get stuck and completely wiped out.
Even with War Dance and the 3 cards, Coyoteman simply can’t properly counter because players take advantage of that lack and spam only Skirmishers.
A good player is difficult to counter, when they combine skirmishers, cannons, and a melee unit (halberdier, doppel, maybe some horses).
Their ARMOR should be upgraded to .40 of antiprojectile (as Port Cassadores) when sending Temple of Xipe Totec.
5 Likes
So you want to use just one unit and defeat a combined army which has a counter unit of your only one unit? AI of this game is extremely bad especially for melee units but heavy cavalry can still counter skirm+cannon. However, it can’t fight against heavy infantry.
Aztecs are just bad in every way possible at this point. They’d need some significant number buffs to exist on the same level as other civs anymore, and their army, while versatile, is fragile. Lacking cavalry means their replacements are essentially a mix of Cossacks and Uhlans - cheap, 1-pop cavalry units that combine low health with high attack, making them essentially useless outside very specific situations.
Coyote Runners need to be used in a specific manner to not be completely useless. They’re unfortunately too fragile to be used in the same way as normal cavalry units, as even a Cossack will have more health - 80 more at base, while only costing 50 more resources.
2 Likes
But I’m talking about CoyoteMan Unit of the Aztec Civ. They are the only counter to skirmishers and cannons, and they don’t do the work.
2 Likes
I think the devs expect you to use slingers and arrow knights and just forget that coyote runners exist.
Not, they dont need it. I dont know how you play the game but I can kill them with coyotes, they are a lot of better than original game, where aztecs cant win against skirmishers, now I win most of my games, france, germans and portuguese include.
Don’t forget you can use the native alliances on certain maps they have cav like natives available. For the Aztec player who successfully uses coyotes, can you share what buffs you use on them to get them to counter skirmishers cost effectively? I sometimes resort to using Janey the pet jaguars instead…
By the way, I notice that under the unit stats in game, it doesnt show that coyotes have any bonuses against skirmishers or anything really. Do dragoons get bonus damage versus them or do they not, like rattan shields? I assume pikes do get a bonus vs them.
Coyotes are shock infantry, they are like cavalry for bonus purposes but bonus agains them are less than vs cavalry cause they have less HP.
In this way pikes,halbs, muskets, dragoons and caroleans have bonus against them.
In the same way skirmishers have bonus against ERKs but not vs coyotes and dragoons have bonus vs coyotes but they havent any bonus vs ERKs
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One Coyote can kill two Skirms while two Skirms are slightly more expensive than one Coyote(Skirm costs less food than Coyote). It’s a nonsense that Coyote can’t counter Skirm+Cannon.
1 Like
They can’t. Coyotes are melee and naturally worse in mass than ranged units. Heavy cavalry can beat that combo cause they are more tanky and have bigger spacing,thus taking less damage from cannons. Coyotes don’t have this and it makes a huge difference.
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Coyote Runners will perform much worse in higher numbers of Coyotes vs higher numbers of Skirms simply because not all Coyotes are able to attack Skirms, but all Skirms are able to attack the runners. Just visualize a full circle of Skirms to minimize surface Energy and you will understand that those Skirms in the middle cannot be attacked. Only the Skirms on the outside can get attacked.
Now, compare this sutation to Curassiers vs Skirms. Curassiers do not have any problem with a big mass of Skirms because they deal aoe damage. This forces Skirms to spread out, which of course increases surface Energy and in turn makes it easier for every Curassier to find a target to attack.
How to solve this? I assume Coyotes will not and should not get aoe attacks. So in turn, their base stats should be raised. You already compared them vs Kossaks, which is a great comparison. Raising their base stats will make them more powerful after upgrade cards aswell.
3 Likes
Which means that Coyote has an adavantage at approching and attacking compared to cavalry, thanks to its small size. Shock infantries are easier to control and swarm Skirm than Heavy cavalries.
There is a reason why ERK spam is considered the only way to play late game Aztec since they’re fast and tanky enough to withstand skirmishers fire and only melee heavy infantry can counter them.
Besides other than the specific temple card, all War Hut aztec unit don’t get combat or arsenal improvement so in late game their unit can only have 100% + specific temple increase from upgrade, meanwhile skirmiser can get 140% increase from upgrade + arsenal + combat card for French or 145% for Dutch.
Noble hut unit is even worse despite the 30% combat and attack card, reason cause they didn’t get veteran 20% upgrade so with those card all Noble hut unit only get 110% increase before each of their temple card.
My suggestion for current late game Aztec play is put all Coyote + ERK card in deck, as well chinampa and farm food card. Make 3 control group, first group is ERK while the other 2 is smaller coyote group each. Use the ERK group to bait and tank the fight, when the enemy locked in fight flank them with the other group from different angle. I say about 40-50ERK + 20-25 coyote each per group.
No. You got that backwards.
Bruh, Coyotes can’t be compared with cavalry. As infantry units, they are affected by skirmishers and cannons because they deal bonus damage vs infantry. Cavalry is not affected by those bonuses.
Thats a lot just to counter skirmishers, with other civs you just need to send 10 cav to mantain skirmishers in line.
Obviously you can combine Coyos, EKR, Slingers and ArrowKnights but is a lot of work to make them work properly, and I consider that as a disadvantage when other civs just send 10 cav and that’s all.
Coyote men have skirmisher-resistance hidden stats.
The problem with Coyotes is that skirmishers can reach critical mass as they are ranged units while Coyotes cannot reach a critical mass as they are melee. The issue could be resolved by increasing coyote health maybe. But that’s not guaranteed.
Guys, the Aztecs at the moment are well balanced, it is assumed that if you need to destroy artillery with Aztecs you must use Arrow Knight or the Aztec WC itself. If you want to continue buffing the Aztecs without stopping, because yes, at least change the cost of the coyote from wood to gold, as happened with the chimu runner, and voila, you have a chimu runner for Aztecs. And before they come to tell me that the Aztecs are weak and blah blah blah, they have the fastest and perhaps strongest rush in the game, they can go to industrial and spam knights skulls (which are now super broken) and they have an acceptable eco, I don’t know what more you can ask for!
We are talking about late game, not rush. And it’s really hard to counter cannons+skirm with AK and EKR specially because normally skirmishers go infront to protect cannons, and AK get out-ranged.