Bagains Pikemen

Remove Halberdiers and apply bagains to pikemen. I’m not advocating for this to solve any particular balancing issue I just think Bagains Pikemen would be an interesting sidegrade that would give Bulgarians an unique identity. Having 8 MA armor would allow them to tank 19 hits from a Hussar or Heavy camels compared to a regular Halberdiers 8. This might seem broken, however your strategy should have never been relying on Hussars to kill Halberdiers, Usually when Halbs manage to engage Hussars they are in the process of sniping your siege or they raiding your eco, or the engagement occurred due to poor unit control in which case it is the hussars should gtfo. In these cases the 12 less attack is far more impactful. Also Bagains Pikemen fare worse against paladins which they take down in 8 hit compared to the normal 5 while dying in 6 hits instead of 4. Also Bulgarians would have no counter against Leitis which is a issue i don’t really know how to solve. And this is completely unrelated but can we please give Bulgarians HC I’m surprised they don’t already.

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Too good in trash wars for a civ with alread crazy hussars and decent ish skirms. Not to mention Konniks, Bagain THS and siege rams who are also pretty solid vs trash

The idea sounds fun but its just not usable with the current Bulgarian civ


what stops you from just adding a few LS to your halb mass?


True but is that really a big issue for a civ with no eco bonuses Magyars also are really powerful in post-imp and trash wars and people don’t really complain about them.
Edit: also since THS have 1MA armor now and this would change would indirectly buff THS I think I would be okay if Bagains was nerfed to +4

Nothing i’m a big fan of bagains THS and want them to have more competitive play.
Edit: in theory Halberdiers is THS is a killer combination for bulgarains since the THS sword can tanks but in practice the halberdiers are faster and will be attack first.

Do you know that is a quite big nerf vs Cavalry because pikemen do poorly vs Imperial Age cavalry, and having 8 melee armor pikemen isn’t even enough.

Maybe agianst Heavy Cavs but against hussar 19 hits enough said

Not a good idea vs Bulgarians lol

I believe that they meant why not do so as Bulgarians

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So only vs Hussars but what about Paladins? How then Bulgarians will handle Paladins?

They can kill in 8 hits and die in 6 and if the paladins are missing melee upgrades they die in 7/8/10 hits respectively, I would still prefer Halbs assuming FU but there are definitely civs with a worst match-up vs paladin. Also it is worth noting that a halberdiers didn’t exist in AOK but neither did bloodlines, Franks must have been SO fun to fight back then.

I thought he wasnt talking about Bulgarians since Bulgarians literally cant add longswords to Halbs 11

Either way I get @casusincorrabil point but I disagree, I think it would be a bit too much , like if Malay had good hussars