Balance discussion and can new cards fix it?

I created this topic so that we may discuss the game’s balance nowadays and the possibility of new Cards for the more underpowered civs.


  • TEAM Marco Polo
    This card is super OP in 3v3 and 4v4 team game, it is easy for 3~4 explorers to get a high value treasure.
    Japan Mountain Warrior is already strong for hunting treasures but Marco Polo can even provide full team bonus plus Map exploring. This is totally ridiculous in team game.


  • Fixed gun
    Cost only 100w 600g but high HP, long range and high damage. Building + artillery, be able to pay half to fully regen HP within 30 sec or auto regen slower by not paying resources. This is nightmare trying to attack Malta in team game while the army composition is more complete.
    Culv/falcs costs 100w 400g while a player most of the time can not train only 1~2 culv/falcs, to attack Fixed gun, unless that Fixed gun doesn’t have many army defense. Otherwise everytime Malta opponent need to pay at least double or even more cost to exchange Fixed gun. Due to Fixed gun high HP it is also high chance that Malta opponent would lose all artillery but still not able to siege down a Fixed gun, and it can regen HP fully quickly as mentioned.

  • Crossbow + Steel bolts
    This one many people except Malta users are complaining, crossbow is a cheap unit but Malta has higher quality than normal skirm. Skirm type also shouldn’t be able to siege with such high damage and range.

  • Wignacourt
    1 card with 30% buff to all resource. The aura is wide doesn’t matter.

  • Sentinel
    This unit should be adjusted it is strange to cost 2 pop but same quality and similar cost as normal musk.

  • Due to I main team game, 1v1 weakness is left for 1v1 main player to discuss. According to Malta players argument, due to 1v1 they can never reach the time to enjoy these OP stuffs, except for Sentinel should be buffed that can enhance their 1v1, other points should not affect their gameplay if following what they said.

Lakota and Haud:

  • Fur Dressing
    They shouldn’t pay 50w more research same effect as normal goldmine tech and they already need to build additional tribal market. Deduct 50w or add 5% should be fair.


  • Musket rider
    Revert the nerfed for their resistance. How do they counter falcs well? Ram? Mantelt? Their cav is also much weaker than general cav (hussar) under same cost (vils working time).


  • Add 50 or 100f for start crate, or free hunting dog researched from market or 50w 50g for start crate.

  • Revert nerfed to Boyars.

Main issues are these.
I am still feeling disgusted some of nerf are unnecessary those they existed from vanilla for almost 20 years without complain, but need to be nerfed after DE noobs appeared and many OP stuffs created after DE.

… I don’t think most of these suggestions are a good idea. You’re really going to nerf Italians and Maltese when they’re two of the weakest civs in the game? Russians are also pretty decent now, I don’t think they need to revert Boyars and there are far more pressing matters.


Maybe a nerf of charge attack in Presidial lancers of Mexico and the RR of javelins in Shewa Cav of Ethiopia.

For Italy only Team Marco Polo is broken and without this card they still can be A tier in team game.
This is nothing change to 1v1 and no one will put it in 1v1, also nothing else is adjusted to Italy.

If you don’t know the power of this card, try with your friends in 3v3/4v4 team game.

This card is more OP than Japan Mountain Warrior.

Malta crossbow already had comparison data in another post.

It is nothing can say while Russia is bottom, still being nerfed vanilla cards and without broken cards like Malta and Italy.

If you have anything want to buff Italy and Malta, just post, I didn’t say they can’t have any buff, but use 1v1 experience to blindly deny team game suggestion is not a good point.

Malta is also in middle range tier in 1v1 from the data.

In fact, compared with the normal mode, Italy and Malta are more vulnerable in the treaty mode. Italy is suffering from high cost troops and relatively weak economic cards in the later stage. Malta is troubled by the difficulties of training construction units outside the fortress. They still have normal strength in the normal mode

Team Marco Polo affects nothing from normal nor treaty mode. It is for Team game. Treaty won’t put this card too.
After Italy player sent this card, whole team enjoy the benefit and there are much more high resource treasure in team game, plus they don’t need to explore the map.

I agree to weaken this card, but I think Italy should strengthen its later economy or reduce the price of its soldiers (mainly Italian skirmishers)
In the treaty model, Italy uses a much more expensive unit but with the same strength as other countries, and its own economy is even worse than other countries, It’s too bad


For Malta has been discussed too much. I just wanna make a conclusion.

  1. From 1v1 winrate, (although I mainly play team game and I will put them at upper A tier now after Sweden Hakk nerfed)
    Malta is at middle tier. (I use 1400 elo because I saw many players under 1200 still too noob for the concept)

From Malta players: They are weakest civ.

  1. Pro has said Malta is already a problem for their early age up, cheaper barrack (hospital, plus additional function can heal nearby units), strong unit (list below item 3).

From Malta players: They are weakest civ.

  1. Crossbow are better then normal skirm with much cheaper cost, enable to range siege without initial animation. (Comparison pictures are showed in several topics already so I don’t repeat here).

From Malta players: They are weakest civ.

  1. Card Wingacourt, with 30% to all resource buff, with aura wide as whole screen to be an excuse that they need condition, better than 3 cards combination (Food/Gold buff card in age 3 only 25%).

From Malta players: They are weakest civ.

  1. Fixed gun, 100w 600g, cost LESS than 2 falcs/culv, with LONGER range than culv, TRIPLE damage to falcs, LARGER area of effect than all artillery, MORE HP than an outpost, just need only 30 sec to build.
    And due to it is also building type, opponent units except artillery need to get close to siege slowly and just a wall can easily block.

From Malta players: They are weakest civ.

With at least 3 stuffs are top in the game, including military and eco, not counting they still can send all other civs specific units with auto upgrade, something those not yet discovered by people.

Malta players here keep denying the fact, data, pro opinion, everything that proving Malta has OP stuff, only according to themselves bias, still debating those worse civ (Russia and Haud I mentioned is lower than Malta) are balanced. (while Haud has totally no method to deal with Fixed gun before age4)

Last, even people has opposite opinion against Malta players, did anyone say Malta can not have buff for their weakness? But Malta players are just denying everything against them, no matter these issues related to their gameplay or not.

What can I say more?


totally agree, I would add that they have a mediocre musk. Papal bombards are awful, papal units are useless because is impossible to get a decent number in that modality by his train mechanics, and his huss are really standard. Their halbs are the only decent unit that they have. All is bad with that civ. :frowning:

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I have no objection to buff them another aspect.

To be fair, anything they are weak should be buffed, anything OP that over average a lot should be nerfed.

I never because this card need nerfed so they can’t have any buff something like this.

The +1400 grid is practically useless since it doesn’t have enough games to be statistically relevant. Maltese are low-mid tier at +1100, which is the one we should be using to arrive at any conclusions.


For people who like to deny data just talk their experience.

This is a team game I played just now with friends, my team is elo 1500 x2 + 2100 , opponent 1500+1800+2300, while I am the lowest elo in the game.

I hide the name because I don’t know they mind or not.

In this game, my team LOST but,

  1. I am not main Malta only level 16, I don’t know Malta except OP point.

  2. My resource is just a bit less than opponent British and Japan, which are two of top eco in the game.

  3. I just spam crossbow, had most units and kill the most.

I know no matter what I say some people will just still have their excuse. Record also can’t prove anything but data can. Many situation can affect a game.

Take an example, as known German eats Russia ,but Russia is not 0% winrate facing German. Some people just like to raise up saying that abnormal situation record try to prove they are correct, sounding German eats Russia means Russia can never win German, which is a joke.

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1 game and a team game at that doesn’t mean malta isn’t weak. It’s not in as bad a position as portugal and inca but it’s still on the low end of mid tier. Sure it has 1 good unit just as the africans have javelin riders but that doesn’t negate it’s weakness to a standard FF and late game malta sucks due to it’s best unit costing wood and all others being 2 population and only having 1 factory.

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For pro 1v1 Malta is considered strong, I heard not only one pro said so. From my gameplay, I also play it stronger than normal civ should be, better than some civs I mainly played since vanilla.

However, somehow I start to agree Malta is weak, probably under your control. May be you should change other civs to play, Otherwise I can’t think any reason why pro consider strong, I am not good player also can use well, figures show top, but weak from you.

The Basilica takes way too long to train units that, while good, don’t feel like they’re worth the wait. Papal Bombards having deflection functions more like a negative rather than a positive.


Which pros said that?

Possibly bow enjoyer. He is number 4 in 1v1 atm and plays a lot of Malta.

I’d like to slightly alter my position. Apparently Maltese aren’t as weak as I thought (though still far from needing all of those nerfs) and Russians are pretty low-mid tier (though I think this can be fixed with a slight increase on the starting resource crates).

All they need is +50 coin added to their start so they can pick up hunting dogs right away or put it towards a first batch of musks or cossacks.