boiling oil got replaced with madrashah with i am perfectly fine with since trash archer are ok
1 st: I dont remove any civ bonus, I revert the old buff by the devs that totally changed the way the civ was intended to be played in aok (even though never sucessfully) and give them a new bonus which is the old UT that is flawed currently because of the timing issues that arise from a UT in Imp.
2 nd: I replace a useless UT.
Nothing really happend. Saracens are not suddenly the civ with siege archers that take down buildings (the one weakness archers have) like they are made of paper totally overshadowing everything else the civ with the effectively broadest techtree has to offer.
But I really wonder why you always run into discussion threads to repeat: “Why change things at all”. You can expect that you see change ideas in these threads so why enter ? You just are read like the old men that screams at clouds because he hates that things are just considered to be changed and far from being actually changed.
Kamandaran
oh yea your right sorry xD
i mean we dont even now wich one we could tackle so we dont ruin the game like there are some that might need some fixes but i think i agree that some might better stay untouched as they rather just need a tweak
when it comes to saracens tho i think a side of me whats just a slight adjustment to madrashah like monks cost -33% instead of them returning them but other then that i think they in an ok place
that’s not a complete redesign though is it? Persians are still at their core a heavy cavalry civilization and have had no other serious changes to the civilization. there heavy cavalry isn’t altered in how it plays, they got some support in the form of trash archers but that’s it.
the person i was talking to would drastically alter how Saracens play, and give them free Bloodlines in Imp as well as an insane increase to the power of their camel units.
team bonus and archer bonus are merged into one essentially. this removes a bonus
you replace 2 unique techs completely and add what is essentially free bloodlines in imperial age.
i’m not against changes at all, youll see I’ve posted, debated, and agreed with several balance changes in the past. i am against unnecessary changes, or completely redesigning a civs bonuses “just because”. Saracens are not a bad civ and they certainly don’t need to be redesigned. i would yes, in fact, think their UT needs to be replaced, and that Mamelukes could be a little bit cheaper, but other then that? good to go.
nice of you to dodge my question though.
1 Like
Just tackling a little thing since boiling oil wasnt that useful and it seems more fitting
i think the imp one might be too drastical
i mean little ajustments or complete changes that what makes the core of an discussion but i think it better to rather think of a rational thing like why change an whole UT when it work and people use it as for the 1 UT a little change to the meaning of it in instead of returning they cost less would just seem more reasonable
i dont think mameluke need changes and ps: i dont think its dodging its argueing
1 Like
My whole point is just that it wouldt hurt them and wouldt make them completly imbalanced as 1 change / little adjustments just fix up some things and adjust their playstyle
1 Like
i agree, just like i have no problem with replacing madrasah with something that fits saracens.
i agree the only changes i think is replacing madrasah and making mamelukes slightly cheaper.
i wasn’t talking to you about dodging the question. i was talking to mostdragon. who claimed they have redesigned civs completely in the past and yet didn’t answer my question.
i agree, i’m all fore little/rational changes, but as drastic as basically free bloodlines, archer bonuses nerfed, and both unique techs changed?
i mean it would be a whole new powerlevel if they had extra bloodline i obviously think ut1 needs a change and maybe an adjustment to the TB since the current focus on saracens are mainly on arbs outshadowing everything else
maybe, but on the other hand, they kind of need that, seeing as camels themselves aren’t good at raiding, fighting buildings, etc.
i think they need to divert abit from it since it makes them too much of a one trick pony civ
dunno if you just give it to camels tho
i’d just replace madrasah with a bonus that affects camels/lukes, like 10% faster attack, or maybe 20% faster creation, or something like that. now they got great archers and camels. i’m completely against redesigning a civ that doesn’t need it though.
I think, if Zealotry gold cost is reduced and Mameluke cost is slightly reduced, they are not a one trick pony anymore.
That alone would give them a decent unique unit and good enough camels that it justifies a lack of Halberdier and Cavalier.
Make Madrasah a better monk bonus, like any of the ones I proposed above, and they will have tons of options to go for.
1 Like
this is also a good option. either way. completely changing the design of the civ is not the way to go.
1 Like
I replied your question. Sadly, but I repeat, I dont need to answer you rhetorical question because there is nothing it compares to what happens here.
so you refuse to back up your claim. got it.
You “abilities” to ignore arguments for the sake of feeling to win something are very strong here. I argued why I said that my changes are not that drastical as you claim it to be. It is not giving Saracens Battle Elephants and Longbows, or making them one of the 5 big archer civs of the game, just one of the two and a half camel civs. It is not my problem that the devs decided to add in my view the wrong bonus back then. But all humans are failable. Nobody will cry about the loss of Madrasaha and the changing of Zealotry to a bonus without name.
Just dont avoid giving legit feedback instead of trying to flame anything, just out of fun. I opened my design to discuss its pros and cons not to ruin my day with you. But I mean the forums have their repetition for reasons.
no thanks
theres no point to rework Saracens
1 Like
We discuss things because when we agree on it will be implemented into the game. I feel you all overestimate your power. It is just an alternative design in a parallel universe 
And yet I think that Madrasah and the archer bonus are problematic.
says the guy who made a claim and refuses to back it up.
and yet i clearly am not the only one who feels they are drastic changes.
they already are a camel civ, all they need is for their UT to be better, Zealotry and Mamelukes to be slightly cheaper.
funny because plenty seem to be against it.
i already did. it’s a drastic change whether you think it is or not, and sure, it won’t be a problem for new players, but those who have been around for a while will have to completely relearn the civilization, and they have literally never redesigned a civ to this level ever before, and Saracens don’t need a complete rework, they just need some touches here and there.