honestly yes but i think your ideas where a bit drasticly so there is a oppotunity to talk about it or just in general as i said about the viability of saracens in general
you just take it to shit talk people who arent comform to your proposal
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I have no problem with people disliking every bit of it. But they shouldnt act like little boys and bring up claims which I never did.
as people has different opinions all opinions are valueble as they are stated and healthy critism is allowed
like i sayed i think madrashah dont need to affect camels but just a change to the monks funktionality
It seems different as you complete obvliated an valid idea
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oh? you mean like this one?
but keep calling me a liar.
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guys this is no platform to just flame eatchother lets just try to stay constructive with ideas and critism
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Yes, the archer bonus is a big problem 11
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That I did and I stick with it. Me saying they did redesigns before totally changing the identity of civs is not equal to what you read out of it and put it into your rheotorical question I did not answer because it was rheotorical and then you accused me of dodging it. Even though I argued that what you read out of it is not was I meant.
i smell sarcasm but i think for saracens it should divide it so its not sooo archer focused
What you mean with dividing it ? I am interested 
Lets say if its more versitile then just archer dealing extra damage or adjust it to something that might comfort camels more
The main weakness of camels is the weakness towards archer fire, which makes them more of a counter unit than something you really mass or raid with. That is why the HP boost is something that is thought of not only by me. For a civ that should rely on camels as Saracens are designed to by missing Cavalier there should be something that benefits them taking punches immediately in castle age.
ok i mean what if we switch ut1 with ut2 and make zealoty giving them just 20 more hp as madrashah for example makes monk later monks in imp especially better with an 33% discount rather then 33% gold return
I mean could work. Late castle age to change on camels is early enough. But I dont know how benefitial Imp Monks are. They are usually something you want to have when single conversions can change the outcome of the game. Then rather give them militaric stances to reduce the micro component of monks with that UT, but I dont like that as a UT in general. Let alone what it has to do with Madrasah as a name, but that is a problem of the current bonus as well.
i think since saracens have all monastry upgrades it would fit if in imp the 2ut madrashah would make them cheaper so its more effectivly usable yea i know what you mean in castle age they have a different importance since knights are vunerable to conversation but i think in imp they keep the same strength as in castle i mean another proposal would be to give them conversion range as an option
What if madrasah was replaced with a UT giving saracens some bonus to their CAs? They got FU CAs, yet we rarely see them…
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seems fair but then again how versitile would saracens be if they camels and especially the mamelukes feels left out
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Imo the problem is not in their unit stats, but in the fact that both zealotry and the mameluks are so incredibly expensive. I think the cost should be toned down.
ok so lets say ut2 would be cav archer +4 vs infantry (for example) And mameluke cost down by 5 food and 5 gold how in your opinion would it shift it
I still think that mamelukes wouldn’t see much use. That plus a cost reduction of zealotry would probably be more helpful.
Problem is that zealotry is so expensive because it buffs a lot both camels and mamelukes. We don’t want to make mamelukes OP, but at the same time we want camels to be more viable. My proposal is: small cost reduction of mameluke together with a large cost reduction of zealotry. Increase however the price of elite mameluke upgrade (which is pretty cheap right now, for UU standards).
What this accomplishes is that zealotry is much more viable for camels, while not giving too much of a power spike due to mamelukes. This is useful, as you may interested in producing camels but not mamelukes.
To summarize, this would be a larger discount on getting FU saracens camels, while being only a minor discount on FU mamelukes, you would basically make the two units less dependent on each other (in terms of upgrade paths).
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