Balance ideas for next patch

Ignoring the new civs because there are already many threads

  1. Cuman Mercenaries (Castle Age): Allies and self gain ability to train 10 Elite Kipchaks (unchanged part). Camel riders cost changed fro. 55F 60G → 100F. - They are the only civ lacking Heavy Camel rider despite having Camel Riders. This won’t change them in team games, and I have seen the data for late game Cumans which is quite bad. This synergises well with their mobile army and poor quality of camels, just like Kamandaran.

  2. Steppe Husbandry (Imperial Age) - because light Cavalry in Castle Age is not seen and subpar cavalry archer line fot Cumans is mostly never seen.

  3. Indians: (civ bonus) Swordsmen line except Militia ignore melee armor while attacking units (Leitis effect) - For meso civs and Goths, this change will give them a good option. Balanced by missing Plate Mail like how Leitis have -2p compared to Paladins.

  4. Burmese (civ bonus): Battle Elephants +1/+1 armor - something to “counter” archers in early Castle Age even remotely, which they are weak against.

  5. Howdah: Elephants attack +17.6% faster (same as Ethiopian archers). Effect of Manipur Cavalry maybe reduced to +4 though.

  6. Magyars (civ bonus): Fire ships cost -15% - no historical justification in my mind but they have 0 economy or military bonuses on a pure water map though. I know you won’t pick them but they can there be for you in random or you may select them on Megarandom and find water.

  7. (minor) Japanese team bonus: affects all warships

Bonuses dropped because civ had too many bonuses:

  1. Goths - +10 population in Imperial Age

  2. Saracens - transport ship bonus (which also purely coincides with Sicilian team bonus)

  3. Teutons - monks healing range

You want buffs for Magyars on water just because they do not shine there? There are much worse civs on water, Teutons and cumans for example.
Also Goths are already called weak so you shouldn’t just take the number of boni in consideration.


Cumans can atleast do a 2 TC rush on pure water maps.

Teutons save wood on farms too and their towers have the potential to fire more arrows, for whatever it is worth.

Both lack range on their galleons so they are too bad in lategame.

Also cumans 2tc delays your castletime and military production. So by the time you start creating ships your opponent has a fleet you can never engage

Are any of these civs OP? I don’t see the need for a nerf.

I’m interested in the cuman trash camel idea… I wonder how their camel stands up in comparison to the hussar? Obviously head to head camel probably wins due to bonus damage, but how do they perform in other situations? I feel like 80 food hussar would still be preferable to the 100 food camel rider, especially when you also consider the spamability of the hussar with steppe husbandry. Not opposed to the idea, definitely situational, but it could be interesting.

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Against cavalry, pierce armor is useless. Hussars are created in 15 seconds, while Camels in 22 seconds.

Hussars attack slightly faster, 1.9 vs 2.

Attack of Hussars: 11 - armor
Attack of Camels non-mounted units and Cataphracts: 10 - armor
Attack of camels against camels and ships: 10 + 5 - armor
Attack of camels against all other mounted units: 10 + 9 - armor

So against cavalry, it feels like a Burgandian Paladin - 40 HP, without the cost to upgrade though.

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It’s a cool suggestion, and it could be nice for giving them a bit more competition in 1v1s. I’d be cool with seeing it happen.

Completely useless. Why? Because with full upgrades a Cuman camel only ties with a generic cavalier. So you’re better of just using your own cavaliers for that. And 100f is overpriced anyway when you could just buy 2 halberdiers for less.

Well in castle age there is no lack of bracer yet to screw you. And at least it being castle allows you to have it ready for Imp.

why bother not giving it to militia since nothing has melee armour in dark age anyway

As of the change itself, it won’t have the effects you intend. Indian infantry already beats eagles, and having effectively +2 against Goth infantry actually doesn’t change the number of hits an Indian champ need to kill a Goth one. So in the end you still have the exact same infantry as Goth but you pay more for it.

Early castle age is like the moment where no leather archer armour isn’t too much of a concern yet since most civs don’t get it anyway. You’re better of rushing a siege workshop than eles against archers anyway.

I mean it’s like half the civs in the game.

Sounds like a good idea. Probs not as minor as you think cuz it can help fire galley raiding and it does help on hybrid maps too but if it can make people think about playing Japanese on full water more often why not?

It’s fine if civs have more bonuses than other. And it truely only look like an issue for Teutons because they really do have a lot of them, but half of them are niche so it’s not too bad.

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I really like the burmese elephant change (but leave manipur cavalry at +5)

Also why would you take away civ bonuses? Just because a civ has too many bonuses isn’t a reason in itself… I heavily disagree on that


Cool suggestion, trash camels sounds like a fun concept. They might still be too weak in Imperial for such a high food cost though.

I would remove this tech altogether, and give something useful instead. Same with the early siege workshop bonus. Civ bonuses and unique techs are scattered, and the civ doesn’t seem to be particularly good at anything.

The cavalry speed bonus also feels pretty much useless without heavy camel. Not sure what Cumans can really do about enemy CA at the moment.

Your idea sounds way too OP. Just make the Elephant Archer a usable UU. And remove Shatagni and replace it with a usable UT.

Decent suggestion, can’t really argue against this.

Feels like an unnecessary change.

There is a legend that when Henry III, Emperor of the HRE attacked Hungary, the Hungarians used some legendary diver to sabotage the ships and sink them. While that’s not exactly how a fire ship works, it feels close enough.

Might be a bit too strong to have this on fire ships, just makes finding the enemy fish even faster, while your own fish is even harder to kill.

None of these nerfs seem necessary. Especially on civs that are mostly considered as garbage on Arabia 1v1

How is doubling the creation speed of cav archers and the scout line not useful?

Ah crap here we go again

Cavalry units are not exactly cheap, so coughing up twice as much resources is just not that likely. And as Cumans you have no discounts or anything. Feels like a LEL bonus that is great when you’re floating 10k of everything and then queue up a bunch of buildings.

Twice as much resources for twice as much units. And in the late game you’re normally floating lots of resources.

Besides due to lacking bracer their cav archers are going to be less efficient as is so they need an advantage.

That is exactly why I’d like to see the UT replaced with something that can compensate for the disadv :man_shrugging:

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And this does. It’s like goths. Quantity over quality.

Still haven’t seen it outside of LEL

That’s because cumans are barely played

Yeah, that is why I really think they should be buffed. I’d never consciously pick the civ in any map or situation, only play it when I draft random civs.

It’s actually +6, which is too strong. So I thought of +4, just like how Indian team bonus was changed from 6 to 4.

It is one of the best UTs in the game at present. Watch Hera and how he raids with Hussars. Though the cavalry archer part of it is useless, Steppe Lancer part is good for the cost, the Hussar part is OP.