Not expensive… you kidding me.
60 gold and 92 wood. That’s nearly a whole tree for one unit. And on top of that 60 gold per unit. A unit that mind you, only comes from a castle with a very poor economy civ on top of that.
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Pretty much; Trying to treb down a mongol castle is relatively a lot harder just because they can snipe siege so easily
but I also agree with this statement regards Koreans
It’s the case of removing the old strength/civ identity of a civ and then never bothering to actually fix it, or do anything meaningful with it, leaving the Korean civ in this mangled state.
basically this. Koreans give a lot of problems to low elo players, because 3 tc boom is popular on low levels, which is completely the wrong play against the Korean WW ‘rush’.
they’ve literally tried to buff Koreans multiple times in DE alone. its not an easy thing to fix though.
Low Elo Players don’t even know what a 3 TC boom is. they might know how to get to castle age and try to focus on what they call a boom but it isn’t even close. most rarely focus on making more villagers.
It is appreciated, but doesn’t seem there is any plan for the civ in general. Just slapping random buffs on top of the civ.
Sure, of course. Low elo players will usually have the right idea, but not a very good execution
but that is a far cry from what you said, which is that they weren’t bothering to fix it - clearly they have been trying - but it isn’t working as intended. my problem here is you claiming something that is factually false.
i doubt this very much - i’ve literally seen low elo players trying to go huskarls against franks. that’s not the right idea.
Not really. They could just basically undo all the changes, at least we’d have a civ with a gameplan, it was still better than whatever this civ is now
Again, of course. Low elo players will often have bad decision making. But even at low elos people tend to try to follow some kind of build orders, just not executing them well
except it is factually false. what you claimed was
which is false. they have attempted to fix it multiple times. it hasn’t had the intended result but to claim they haven’t tried anything is blatantly false.
this literally conflicts with this
Try to read the whole sentence, not half of it, and then it won’t contradict. The context was regarding 3tc boom.
Here, the context was your example regards decision making with army composition.
Slapping random buffs and nerfs onto a civ is not what I’d call attempt to fix. In my opinion the civ had clearer gameplan in the past than it does now. But this is probably rather subjective. Overall, not really happy with how the civ is looking now. This is also a subjective opinion, you are welcome to disagree, of course.
except they aren’t random - they are targeted towards playing towards the civs strengths. the problem is they continue to ignore the one obvious weakness that is never addressed. having a reliable eco bonus that helps them in the early game. much like Byzantines.
Civilization bonuses
- Villager have +3 [Line of Sight]
- [Stone] Miners work 20% faster.
- [Tower] upgrades are free ([Bombard Tower] requires [Chemistry]
- [Archer Armor] upgrades are free.
- Military units cost –20% less wood (except siege weapons).
this obviously seems like a direction to buff them a strange one since they still go the old tower way but a way
@anon45959656 i think saying they just slap random buffs on korean is just false
this bonus is honestly wasted on villagers, i think extending it to fishing ships would help as it enables them to more easily scout more fish.
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honestly i agree but parshly as they dont really emphathize on foward tower rushes anymore
but in all honestly im not sure if fishing ships is a good comprehencion
Additional fishing ship LoS would help them retreat from fire galley raids, which is important for Korean since they don’t get demolition rafts to counter those.
Oh i think they need more buffs then just that. but i just think it would be a natural buff to give them.
I remember the post-imperial (a long time ago perhaps) composition of the civ used to be basically halbs and Siege and WW, the new bonuses don’t much help all that much with that. The WW now just costs about as much as it did in AoC if I recall right.
With weaker tower rushes, the other old strength of the civ is also not as good, so the civ seems kind of not particularly good at anything. But this is a subjective opinion, I don’t like the civ very much as it is now.
nice idea, the bonus is already pretty good on nomad maps, so this could make it even better there
It’s pretty obvious the civ is a UU civ now, while still being the best or second best tower civ (depends whether you prefer yasama) and pretty good at halb+SO too.
Waste? It makes Koreans an S-Tier Nomad civ.
It also can help to protect Vils on woodlines against raids. Koreans are still classified as a defensive civ and it fits that gameplay very well.
Have they? The unit costs like 8 wood less in DE. Before the korean redesign most people said war wagons would be the worst unit in the game. With a discount of 3-4 % they become overpowered?
But well, I actually prognosted this to happen, as I said before the redesign that war wagons are actually an a-tier UU. But nobody played them because of that silly tower rush thing and no eco behind it.
Now Koreans just get a small powerspike at the beginning of castle age and some think war wagon would be overpowered. It isn’t, it’s just that powespike, comparable to the franks knight rush, but with the difference that it falls down a bit after the initial powerspike.
True, I forgot about mentioning greedyness 
thx
Koreans have a gameplan now. It’s defend til castle age, build 1-3 castles and spam war wagons. Add pikes and/or mangos accordingly to how the opponent tries to stop it.
It’s pretty straight forward. And it fits their classification as a defensive civ.
Is still the second best post-imp comp after the khmer one. But the meta right now is to make a one-tc push with them, so they don’t hav the eco to make that post-imp comp happen regularly.
And I don’t wonder cause after all the defense nerfs games often just don’t get to a post-imp state. Why taking so much risk with Koreans if you have that mid-game powerspike to work with?
*Be me
*Play random civ 1v1 vs a korean picker on Hill Fort
*go full archer (as archer civ)
*Opponent fast castles and puts a tower everytime i even try to hit one palisade
*enemy hits castle
*He Castle drop within his walls
*He spams War Wagon against my XBows
*I insult him and resign
*Sees map, 2 Castles within his Palisades, not even requiring to move outside, still plenty of wood and gold, no Food Eco
Nice Balance
I think its pretty obvious that War Wagons are the Old Arambais now and therefore they need a nerf.
But if you’d ask me I would scratch the wood discount (yeah reducing wood cost of a balanced UU by 18 makes it broken + free defense upgrades. An infant could have figured that out, the balance team not)
Idk civ would have been best with Tower Range as Civ bonus and the Free defense upgrades. With current stats its just an even more broken Water civ (Turtle Ships got free Speed after removal of the old UT) and an UU only civ (like Spanish), which is unhealthy.
But you gotta serve your Meta Slave Noob community anyway who can’t defend Trush and need to show off by executing their 22+10 Britian Archer build for the 348394th time. The map changes and the Tower nerfs where the Gravestone of Arabia
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Nerf WW
- Suddenly imagine that ele archers, ballista eles and mamelukes get viable and cheap to mass
Nice!! you will be here complaining the same about those (Have you seen Elephant Archers destroying Buildings… is really wtf)
Go archers vs the archer counter no. 1 civ.
Complain about being punished.
Overextend feudal vs an all-in early castle civ.
Complain about being punished.
There are just some civs where certain strats don’t work.
And the remaining question is, why people go for strats like this every game, not even considering what they play agains… Maybe because they think “archers OP!”? It’s good we have civs like koreans to break this metaplay.
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