Could you please specify what you mean? 11
Do you feel they are too strong? Too weak? We need something more to start a conversation about the Korean Unique Unit.


Yeah I think turtle ships need some buff. They are still not viable.

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We don’t even know yet if this topic is about the Turtle Ship or the War Wagon…


I mean. I’m not going to argue that we should unbalance the Korean UU. So I guess I agree with the very vague request of the OP. We should make sure it’s balanced.


Is this a troll post??

War Wagons are pretty strong, but expensive, they are fine.
Turtle Ships are fine also

Are you losing hard vs those units? or Aren’t you using those correctly???

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They come from a castle and cost a ton from a very poor economic civ. Play as Goths if you want to just murder them with using huskarls.

I think WW fit the same role as conqs, mangudai, kipchak, and plummed archers. These ranged mobile units are strong both in castle and imperial age, but players needs to first build a castle in order to produce them, which is really costly, so it falls upon the enemy to punish their greediness. To me, WW feel pretty balanced, and just like BomberGriffin said, they are an expensive unit for a civ with a slim eco bonus.

Is this a troll post??

I really wonder the same lol.

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WW are not expensive

the civ is weak, but the unit is absolutely broken

it used to be fair, but they kept giving the overpowered unit more and more free upgrades and discounts instead of just fixing the civ properly


Broken to that point???
The civ lacks a power unit to go, War Wagon fits the role, I can say the same to the Mangudai no?

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The differencs is that war wagons can push, mangudai not.
War wagon is more comparable to arambai and conqs. The difference is that ww are beefier but push slower than the other ones.

So for me it looks balanced.

Of course it’s questionable if it’s good design to have this pushing UUs in the game, but as you also need some skill to mass them, this play doesn’t come in until a level where you also learn how to counter these strats, so it isn’t as much as a problem as eg tower rushes or douches.

Of course the first time you encounter it you will always be surprised, but this is the concept of these unconventional strats, or?

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mangudai have counterplay (that isn’t other Unique Units)
WW do not

also mangudai do not carry the mongol civ entirely. they still have a relevant dark age economy bonus. korea does not

LMAO have you faced 33 post Imp Mangudai??? with the Hussar support??, Good luck trying to counter that…
War Wagons are really scary, especially with the SO +Halb support, but is even more expensive than Mangudai+Hussar+Siege…
Not saying that Mangudai needs nerf to clarify…

Pff… Remove or nerf Mangudai and Mongols are nothing 111


camels, knights, mass pikes, mass skirms.

The problem isn’t that there wouldn’t be a counterplay. The problem is that you have to plan it. Don’t overextend feudal vs koreans, that’s the advice. Then you can easily mass the counters in time and give them no chance to overwhealm you.

And with this in min, ww are way less a prob then mangudai bec mangudai have literally no counterplay with perfect micro.


I agree… The shape of war wagon looks a bit awkward and unbalanced. Maybe they can re-proportion the horse and the wagon part of the design…


what does post-imp have to do with anything?

i’m talking about regular units like crossbows & castle age cavalry doing okay against mangudai (when that isn’t true against war wagon)

these don’t actually have enough rate of fire + mobility to really counter WW

they can do okay keeping them away from your vils in a 1v1, but in a normal game they can’t really reduce the WW numbers or save your ally from being doubled by WW + something else. WW might not be fast, but they aren’t slow enough that they can be trapped

WW is cheap for what you get. it doesn’t affect good maps too much, but they keep putting maps with no counterplay in the teamgame pool so it comes up a lot nowadays

korea should have been made stronger in other ways, not by making WW overpowered


True in 1v1, but in a TG is just hard.

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Yeah… This is a team game topic. And still, Koreans aren’t the strongest team game civ overall. In two pools actually nobody gone for that doubling with Koreans. Besides everybody knows how strong it can be to double on an enemy with a pushing unit + support.
But the same is still true for spanish and burmese, besides it looks that arambai was nerfed a bit too much imo. Of course it’s harder as flank vs war wagons cause they soak so much arrowfire. But it’s also not gamebreaking. It’s a huge investment to double on a flank and gives usually the pocket the opportunity to just outboom the other pocket or to make counterraids.

There are some civs which have good UUs for team games, but that’s also completely fine as they often have nothing else to offer.

But maybe you could make an argument for reducing the anti building damage of non elite war wagons by 1 or 2 in exchange for the free archer armours. Still, Koreans are not a overwhealming civ and they need to rely on their war wagons, they have basically nothing else to work with. They still need a slight buff in general, not a nerf.

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War Wagons die to knights fast as hell. There is your counterplay. Else mangonel do it. Both units are easily killed by mangudai. I don’t see your point here.

a wall of skirms can easily counter ww also it depends on the micro of the ww