Balance Patch 22.09.2026 - Update 185872

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

As someone pointed out in the other thread, a separate thread to discuss the balance changes.

General

  • With The Viking Sagas Mounted Crossbowmen are added to the game, replacing Cavalry Archers for most European civilizations, which can also be upgraded with the new Cranequins technology!
  • Infantry
    • Man-at-Arms bonus damage vs. Shock Infantry increased from +2 → +3.
    • Long Swordsman bonus damage vs. Shock Infantry increased from +6 → +8.
    • Two-handed Swordsman bonus damage vs. Shock Infantry increased from +8 → +9.
    • Champion bonus damage vs. Shock Infantry increased from +8 → +9.
    • Eagle Scout train time reduced from 50 seconds → 46 seconds.
  • Siege
    • Battering Ram-line line of sight increased from 3 → 5.
    • Armored Elephant-line line of sight increased from 4 → 6.
    • Siege Tower line of sight reduced from 8 → 6.
    • Onager attack increased from 50 → 55.
    • Onager pierce armor increased from 7 → 8.
  • Naval
    • Demolition Ship upgrade cost reduced from 50 wood 100 gold, 50 seconds → 25 wood 75 gold, 20 seconds.
    • Hulk-line melee armor reduced from 4/5/6 → 3/4/5
    • Hulk HP reduced from 90 → 85.
    • War Hulk HP reduced from 115 → 110.
    • Lou Chuan bonus damage vs. Buildings reduced from +230 → +180.
    • Fire Galley bonus damage vs. Buildings reduced from 1 → 0.
  • Fortified Church build time increased from 40 seconds → 50 seconds.

Armenians

  • Gain access to Treadmill Crane.

Bengalis

  • Ratha train time increased from 20 seconds → 24 seconds (Elite unchanged).
  • Lose access to Treadmill Crane.

Bohemians

  • (Elite) Hussite Wagon cost increased from 110 wood 70g → 110 wood 80 gold.
  • Wagenburg Tactics movement speed for Gunpowder Units effect reduced from 15% → 10%.
  • Gain access to Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to Treadmill Crane.

Britons

  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Gain access to Cranequins.
  • Lose access to (Heavy) Cavalry Archers.

Burgundians

  • Flemish Militia cost increased from 30 food 25 gold → 35 food 25 gold.
  • Feudal Age Flemish Militia train time increased from 14 seconds → 16 seconds.
  • Gain access to Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to Cavalry Archers.

Byzantines

  • Gain access to (Elite) Varangian Guards.
  • (Elite) Cataphract bonus damage vs. Infantry increased from 9 → 13, Elite 12 → 18.
  • Logistica effect changed from Cataphracts deal trample damage, +6 vs. Infantry → Cataphracts and Varangian guards deal trample damage.

Celts

  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to (Heavy) Cavalry Archers.
  • Lose access to Treadmill Crane.

Chinese

  • Lose access to Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade.

Danes

  • Added with The Viking Sagas DLC! The Danes focus on Infantry and Siege.

Franks

  • (Elite) Throwing Axeman range increased from 3 → 5, Elite 4 → 6.

  • Bearded Axe unique technology removed.

  • NEW: Ordonnance Companies (Castle Age):

    • Effect: Mounted Crossbowmen cost -40% gold.
    • Cost: 400 food 250 gold, 40 seconds.

  • Gain access to Treadmill Crane.

  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.

  • Gain access to Cranequins.

  • Lose access to (Heavy) Cavalry Archers.

Goths

  • Gain access to Treadmill Crane.

Gurjaras

  • Docks +5 garrison capacity civilization bonus removed.

Huns

  • Atheism now applies Wonder and Relic victory timer increase only to enemy and neutral players.
  • Atheism victory timer increase can now stack if the technology was researched more than once in the game.
  • Atheism now applies the Relic income reduction effect also to the players neutral to the Hun player.

Italians

  • Gain access to Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to Cavalry Archers.

Jurchens

  • Grenadier cost changed from 35 food 65 gold → 55 food 50 gold.

Koreans

  • Lose access to Gambesons.
  • Turtle Ship HP reduced from 275 → 260.

Magyars

  • Magyar Huszar train time increased from 12 seconds → 18 seconds (Elite unchanged).

Mapuche

  • (Elite) Bolas Rider cost increased from 45 wood 50 gold → 50 wood 55 gold.

Muisca

  • Temple Guard attack reduced from 12 → 11 (Elite unchanged).

Poles

  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to (Heavy) Cavalry Archers.

Portuguese

  • Lose access to Redemption.
  • Organ Gun train time increased from 25 seconds → 28 seconds (Elite unchanged).
  • Gain access to Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to Cavalry Archers.

Saracens

  • Lose access to Treadmill Crane.

Saxons

  • Added with The Viking Sagas DLC! The Saxons focus on Infantry and Defenses.

Shu

  • War Chariot cost increased from 65 food 90 gold → 75 food 90 gold.
  • War Chariot train time increased from 28 → 32 seconds.
  • Gain access to Treadmill Crane.

Sicilians

  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Gain access to Cranequins.
  • Lose access to Cavalry Archers.

Spanish

  • (Elite) Conquistador cost increased from 70 food 60 gold → 75 food 60 gold.
  • Conquistador train time increased from 24 → 26 seconds (Elite unchanged).
  • Missionary cost increased from 100 gold → 30 food 100 gold.
  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to (Heavy) Cavalry Archers.

Teutons

  • Stable and Barracks units +1/+2 melee armor in Castle/Imperial Age civilization bonus changed → Infantry and Mounted Units +1/+2 melee armor in Castle/Imperial Age.
  • Elite Teutonic Knight melee armor reduced from 10 → 8 (unchanged with civilization bonus).
  • Gain access to (Heavy) Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to Cavalry Archers.

Tupi

  • (Elite) Blackwood Archer cost increased from 35 wood 45 gold → 40 wood 45 gold.

Varangians

  • Added with The Viking Sagas DLC! The Varangians focus on Cavalry and Navy.

Vietnamese

  • Gain access to Masonry.
  • Archery Range units and Fire Lancers +20% HP civilization bonus changed → Foot-Archers and Skirmishers +20% HP.
  • (Elite) Rattan Archer base HP reduced from 40 → 35, Elite 45 → 40.
  • Elite Rattan upgrade reduced from 1000 food 750 gold → 800 food 750 gold

Vikings

  • Chieftains effect no longer generates gold when Infantry units defeat Villagers, Trade Units, and Monks.
  • Lose access to Gambesons.
  • Gain access to Varangian Guards.
  • Gain access to Mounted Crossbowmen.
  • Lose access to Cavalry Archers.
  • Lose access to (Elite) Cannon Galleons
  • Gain access to Catapult Galleons

Wei

  • Xianbei Raider cost increased from 65 wood 25 gold → 65 wood 35 gold.
6 Likes
The Viking Sagas is available now! Discuss the DLC and newest patch here
The Viking Sagas is available now! Discuss the DLC and newest patch here
2

too many changes to classic civs. they are all getting infected with DE gimmick bullshit. adding “regionalism” for no reason, and at any cost

teutons. I feel like the “extra melee bonus” is getting too broad.

also vietnamese no longer get a bonus to fire lancers. i wish the unit was entirely removed from them, but it’s a step in the right direction.

at least the stupid mechanic of chieftains’ gold-on-kill was removed

3 Likes
3

They did plenty of changes to V&V, which is great. In Temujin, they did changed the Great Jin to the Jin, but forgot to change the Xi Xia (Tanguts) to the Khitans…

Some Heath in scenarios taking place in Britain (including William Wallace) woud be nice.

5

The Teutons mounted crossbowman with extra melee amour were a good ideal, as there are many anti infantry units like samurai, jaguars warriors, and other, that teuton, have no counter to intel they get hand cannons in imp, by this time it’s usually to late.

However Tuetons mounted crossbows, are vary lackluster even in the vary real match ups that they do good in like fighting ranged melee infantry, or unites like the new jarl, they don’t work well enough to justify there high cost.

Further more they fall off heavy in imp, and have a vary expensive upgrade, I really don’t understand what the devs were thinking here, the extra melee amor is off set by there lack of husbandry, there slow so they take more hits, they only work kind of sort of ok, vs a vary small group of unites mostly in castle age, while being incredibly expensive.

They need to either get there missing bonus infantry and range upgrade or get +1 damage in imp, because as they are there basically useless.

3 Likes
7

Tupi recently is ok, don’t need increase the UU cost more, they are now hard for use( first time need nerf but now no)

Vietnamese did dev have some wrong about it? Cavalry archer ok , but fire lancer, it expensive and now too worst pay for that unit, ( weakest in area and no blast furnace, gambeson ? ) it is wrong Dev please reconsider it, it bad thing in this update. Should be have 20%hp for fire lancer, just nerf 1 is ok, while other area keep unchange bonus, keep it help them more diversity strategy.

Teuton need to access to ring archer armor should they?

While I sure next update vagarian will be nerf :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:, this time really thank for update Byzantine they now better after long term lack special for the UU.

And wait what why viking lose access gambeson? No I just buy new DLC let play Viking why ??? Disappointed really second thing with me,. I go to work so can’t see that oy. Dev have much think need to reconsider.

8

I agree with the balance changes are looking good. Maybe Vikings losing Gambesons will be a problem.

2 Likes
9

No they need it together other East Asia, and need keep unchang 20%hp bonus.

10

A very disappointing patch, lot of textual description of changes but very little positive impact. No changes to the insanely overused skirmishers. Melee units bumping on each other when chasing ranged units is not fixed but melee stack petrol removed which is a huge win for ranged units, which means even more skirms oriented gameplay.

All fc uu plays heavily nerfed, a bunch of asymmetric units like Bola riders, war chariots, fire lancers for 2 civs nerfed making meta gameplay even more powerful than before. Except axemen, no buffs to other weak abysmal units like Mounted trebuchets, Urumi Swordsmen, Flaming camels, Fire archers, a bunch of other slow moving infantry. No nerfs to broken civs like Chinese, Mongols and no buffs to weak civs like Sicilians, Bulgarians, Goths.

As far as new civs, I had already mentioned it’s a bad idea to add more naval civs without a massive rework of naval warfare (not just adding Hulk). Pushing obsidian arrows in a different form isn’t going to be well received either. The only good addition is the mounted crossbows but being an asymmetric unit, I’m afraid as usual the meta pro folks will complain too much and make it useless after a couple of patches. Hope those who are known to call every new civ as OP stay focused on nerfing castle infantry units like Jomsviking and forget about Mounted crossbows. That’ll be the only net positive outcome in terms of balance changes.

Request to the devs - next big patch please address the overuse of skirms, secondary projectiles of towers not hitting vills because of the auto-dodge effect when they move after being hit by the first arrow. Focus on civ designs with good economy, good cavalry or ranged units and not infantry based.

1 Like
11

Dunno about the Militia-line changes. I doubt I will make Militia especially to counter shock infantry.

Siege changes look good. You usually didn’t bother unlocking Onager when your Civ did not have Siege Onagers. This will especially buff Civs who have no Bombard Cannons but Onagers and Siege Engineers.

Navel changes also look good. Hulk are less of a damage sponge in Hulk-vs-Hulk, anti-building damage of Fire Galleys and Lou Chuans were brought down to a more reasonable level, and Demos got a much needed buff.

Most of the Civ-specific changes are just nerfs to Phosphoru rushes. Portuguese losing Redemption might also hurt them a lot outside of Phosphoru rushes.

An expected nerf to Korean and Vietnamese Fire Lancers. But I feel Vietnamese also losing the HP bonus to Cavalry Archers is overkill.

I suspect we will see some further changes to Byzantines eventually, as I do not feel the Varangian Guards add much of value to the Civ.

12

The new pathing is definitely an improvement imho. Well done devs.

13

Teuton longswords probably don’t win against Samurai, but Teuton knights (arguably their best unit) should beat samurai easily. Not as certain about Jaguar warriors, though. And scorpions/mangonels are pretty effective against infantry masses, with scorpions getting bonus damage. And Teutons have good siege (ironclad is a useful tech and especially relevant here). The mounted crossbows seem a bit redundant to me, but Teutons weren’t really using cav archers either, so its mostly whatever.

I think a nerf to Vietnamese cav archers was a long time coming. Their Rattan archers are reasonably fast anyways, and those became better due to the civ bonus change (and lowered upgrade cost)

Poles probably don’t appreciate switching to mounted crossbows - just seems like cav archers should synergize better with both Obuchs and their other cavalry. Celts should prefer MC over cav archers, not that they’ll go for either much. Portuguese Organ guns probably will need a buff now that they can’t combine them with redemption monks. Organ guns just haven’t seemed that strong to me - the combination with redemption monks (keeping mangonels from being an effective counter) was what was strong more than the organ guns themselves.

Overall, I do like most of the changes in the update though.

1 Like
14

But need 1 ring armor will better let they can do something at later of game, while they dont have hand cannon or archer.

Yes, cavalry archer is ok when it make pro player use it playable more than elo under 1k6. But fire lancer it is really overkill, no gambeson, no blast furnace.

15

You cannot use long swords vs the Japanese as there own long swords will absolutely destroy yours, knights as well just get ruined by Aztec or japaneses spear man, so that dose not work.

Scorpions without iron clad are impossible to keep alive vs knights, and many times, I have had even spear man, and other infantry just run past whatever infantry or cavalry I have protecting them, the scorpions became useless the moment the infantry gets to them, and they then die in two seconds.

Finally ironclad is a vary expensive upgrade , you need to make a castle first , then you still need to make the scorpions, it’s vary impractical, and they can just make onagrs or knights.

16

Mounted cross bow need + 1 attack, it fill the speed reload of them.

1 Like
17

Teuton longswords against Japanese is fairly close, due to extra melee armour. yes, Japanese win, but it’s not even close to as bad as most other civ. Teutons should have the better eco, so you can make more of them

11v10 is already kinda even in castle age, slightly in favour of Teutons
11v10 in imperial age is a clear win for Teutons

18

Hi, after the update I have a problem, I can’t download the Dynasties of India update (code error 0X87E0000F). Even reinstalling the game didn’t help. What should I do?? Thanks.