Logistica then reduced to 900f and 500g.
The forage bonus gives them 100 more food.
Isn’t this a tower shield:
Anyhow, this is a game and buffing the hussars is a nod to the Poles in the P-L Commonwealth.
So cav archers are invalidated but absolutely broken with no thumb ring but +3 attack that relies on relics? Fascinating.
The problem with cataphracts is not the cost of Logistica but the cost of the elite upgrade (1600 food, seriously devs???)
+150 food bonus is much better than the forage bush bonus you suggest
Tower shield is really a technology which needs improvements, but in my opinion buffing it to +1melee +1pierce armor, aswell reducing it’s cost to 450 food 250 gold could be a good change
No, a Tower Shield is strictly an Infantry shield taht covers you from heat to toe. You cannot use it on a horse, and even for Infantry, it is strictly for highly disciplined formation fighting, as an idividual would have trouble defending himself from an attacker he can barely see most of the time, due to the shield being so large.
yes, from the slowest food source, you’re nerfing them badly
No, its a huge man sized shield, you can’t carry it on horse and as @JonOli12 said, it doesn’t really fit the game as there are no battle formations and mobile infantry can’t carry them either. But for accuracy, lets say you can’t apply its benefit to hussars
I’m having trouble reading this but giving cav archers +3 attack (2 relics are easy to take, 3 isn’t tough either) is pretty broken but removing thumb ring also makes them useless with their stormtrooper accuracy. I don’t know what you’re trying to make them with this
Yup, the ultimate problem with jags is the need to produce them. Aztecs rarely tech into champion itself. They win most games by early imperial with eagles/monks/skirms/arbs/siege. If the Aztecs actually need infantry, they’ll always go barracks champ instead of investing into castles and produce slightly better but more expensive units
Jaguar Warriors (17 sec with Aztec bonus) and Magyar Huszar (16 sec) train too slow. For both Units you would need about 5-6 Castles to make use of them. Also, non-Elite Jaguars only have 50 HP, 10 less than the Longswordsmen. It takes a while to have them in numbers to be able to take on other Infantry. Sure their damage output can let them take on higher number of Enemy Infantry, just not early on or they will be swarmed and not have the Health (from numbers) to take on Enemy Infantry.
For the Huszar, it’s strange to have such a high relative train time on a Unit designed to be spammed. I can’t imagine them winning w/o number superiority or sending them to raid to just have them die, while not being able to re-mass them in good time. Which is unfortunate, as they do have good stats; Elite Huszars can take a Champion 1v1.
You can’t argue that one bonus makes the cav archers invalid but the other bonus they receive makes them broken. They are a package of boni that affect them. Your judgement should be based on how good cav archers are going to be with a combined loss of thumb ring but +3 attack.
Also, the game is not 100% realistic. The Chinese for example do not get gunpowder units. If you want just change the name from Tower Shields to something else.
It would be a huge nerf. In theory relics affecting attack would be OP because additional ranged damage is much better than additional melee damage (because all ranged units in a group can attack at once, while it’s rarely the case for melee units. Even if we had perfect pathing)
However since CA literally miss half their shots without Thumb ring, it would nullify most of the additional attack. And if you’re denied relics, at least your cav is still FU, but your CAs would lack both Thumb ring and Parthian tactics. If you wonder whether or not it would be a good unit: remember the last time you’ve seen a Goth HCA? Me neither.
For accuracy, unique technologies are more important than the generic tech you get in your tech tree. For instance both Chinese UT are accurate, Rocketry being a reference to early gunpowder usage (yup) and Great Wall being self-explanatory. So if Lithuanian had iconic tower shields that they would use for their footsmen you’re not going to invent something they had for cavalry just because FU Hussars isn’t enough for you.
I dunno, I think it could work and be interesting. While the game files say they’ve got 50% accuracy, in reality it’s closer to 70%. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still very powerful, but I think it could maybe be viable, we should do the math first.
So a Lith HCA with all upgrades currently does 12.22 damage per firing period. Taking away Thumb Ring would reduce that to 11 for the fire rate bonus and then to about 7.7 for the accuracy. With +3 damage, they’d instead do 9.8 damage per firing period.
So on the surface it wouldn’t be worth it. But that’s ignoring enemy armor. Assuming the enemy is fully upgraded as well, you’re talking about at least 4 armor on things, so lets see how that pans out.
So a current Lith HCA would do 11-4=7*1.1=7.7 damage.
The alternative version would do 14-4=10*.7=7 damage. So slightly inferior against most units. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that misses can sometimes hit enemies and do half damage. If they hit something else 20% of the time, then you’re looking at a real-life value of 8 damage per firing period, or actually superior to current.
Finally, what about against Knights? Paladins end up with seven pierce armor.
Current Lith HCAs would do 11-7=4*1.1=4.4 damage per firing period.
Modified HCAs would do 14-7=7*.7=4.9 damage per firing period, or actually superior to present. Furthermore, you could realistically add a little less than 1 damage for accidental hits, taking you up to ~5.8 damage per firing period, or something like 30% more damage than at present.
Honestly, I’m kinda liking it, odd as it sounds.
Other things to consider are the fact that it saves them quite a bit of investment in Thumb Ring, and the fact that their tested accuracy values(tested by SOTL) are at maximum range, and they actually get quite a bit better at closer ranges.
My suggestion makes their cavarly archers a bit more relevant imho because their total attack would be 7+4+3 = 14. That would put them somewhere between an Arambai (30% accuracy when elite and attack 19) and a normal Cav archer (100% accuracy and 10 attack). Perhaps give them Parthian tactics and/or keep the max attack to +4 so their total attack is 15.
I’m a bit surprised about the obsession over the name of the UT but that’s fine. Then make it +2 melee armour (and even +1 pierce armour) for halbs and skirmishers.
Ok but why though? I’m not an expert on PLC or Lithuanian history but I don’t think they had any significant horse archery prowess to justify this odd bonus. Also atleast with knights, it makes sense. They’re motivated to fight harder with the fervor of having sacred relics on their side. You can imagine that logic. Cav archers? They pull the bowstring harder than they can? It doesn’t make sense
Oh yeah, I’ve got no justification or reason for it, I just enjoy doing math on things like that to see whether or not they’d actually work or not 
That said, if the civ is under-performing, it would be a straightforward way to make them a smidge stronger.
Or allow TKs to collect relics
That would not be great, since they are too slow for taht job.
Really, just allowing them to benefit from Sanctity and Fervour would not only be historically accurate, but also add novelty and allow TKs to actually have a use ingame.
Eh, wouldn’t be a particularly useful bonus, as generally relics are all collected by the time you’re producing unique units.
But you could grab them with your TKs after you’ve raided the enemy town :D.
I’d like if TKs are immune to conversion.
I would also see some speed buffs for slow units.
Champion 0.9 -> 1.
Teutonic Knights 0.7 -> 0.85.
War Elephant 0.6 -> 0.8.
Samurai 1 -> 1.05.
Jaguar Warriors 1 -> 1.05.
Arambai are 100% guaranteed to have their good damage all the time, while your CA could end up with only +1 or +2. Even if they get the full 13 damage, it’s way too far from 19 (Elite Arambai) to make up for having an abysmal accuracy.
In Beta they had FU HCA for some reason. I guess it was to represent the fact they had some mercenary nomads or something? Or they wanted all Last Khan civs to get Parthian tactics? Dunno.
I suppose you’re right. I just really want them to be decent for once.
Horse archers were used extensively in the P-L Commonwealth. Many nobles were just that. Mounted Archers.
Additionally, the Lithuanians also had excellent light cavarly. If I am not mistaken, 15 civs get fully upgraded Hussars, and another 8 either get FU Hussars or Hussars with some other bonus.
What do you mean Arambai are 100% guaranteed to have their good damage all the time. I think that if the Arambai miss, they make half their damage, not their full damage if they hit some other target.
So they weren’t pagan or Christian, why would they be affected by relic bonus? I think almost FU cav archers are a decent nod to them, as well as FU hussars. The poles were the ones with famous hussars anyway
