The clubmen and axemen units need to be changed. They slow down the game since they cost food that you need to advance, and then become useless as soon as swordsmen take the stage. They’re really only good after the gold has run out and there’s nothing left (but then there’s chariots).
The game would be much better and action oriented if we made clubs and axes cost 20 stone instead of 50 food. This makes early fighting much more common and fast-paced. I know this probably won’t happen since it changes the game so much, but I figured I’d post it.
They don’t cost much more food that bowmen or slingers and they cost much less that scouts. I think axemen are properly balanced compared to the other tool age units. I guess you could argue that none of the tool age military units are worth it, but the problem is definitely not axemen and clubmen specifically.
Part of the AoE classic gameplay is well-balancing the food you use to investigate/advance age or to recruit early-game troops. If you can advance fastly and have an early army too… what’s the point on Stone and Tool ages?
Have the axemen upgrade better in later ages, showing them with bronze and iron axes and maces
I agree with True, upgrade tools in later ages.
I guess I’m mostly just lamenting that the stone and tool ages will be mostly skipped on all but the smallest games. It’s like there’s only 2 ages now instead of the classic 4. Big early battles just can’t develop when it’s so easy to go to iron.
I always thought it was weird why the Axeman could not be upgraded to the Short Swordsman. In Age of Empires II the Militia in the Dark Age can be upgraded all the way to Champion in the Imperial Age.
@rhrmn said:
I always thought it was weird why the Axeman could not be upgraded to the Short Swordsman. In Age of Empires II the Militia in the Dark Age can be upgraded all the way to Champion in the Imperial Age.
Because Axemen are no gold units and short swords cost 15 gold, and gold is sparse in Aoe1
@rlagore said:
@rhrmn said:
I always thought it was weird why the Axeman could not be upgraded to the Short Swordsman. In Age of Empires II the Militia in the Dark Age can be upgraded all the way to Champion in the Imperial Age.
Because Axemen are no gold units and short swords cost 15 gold, and gold is sparse in Aoe1
All gold must be gathered by limited gold mines or merchant ships, so that makes sense. Adding a gold cost to Clubman and Axeman would affect gameplay and reduce the effectiveness of an early game rush. It has been awhile since I have been an active original Age of Empires player. Thanks for the reminder.
@the_choson_one said:
Part of the AoE classic gameplay is well-balancing the food you use to investigate/advance age or to recruit early-game troops. If you can advance fastly and have an early army too… what’s the point on Stone and Tool ages?
Currently the axemen get completely replaced with the stronger swordsmen starting bronze because they both cost food. Instead of giving axemen upgrades (which I’m not opposed to) to make them stronger, changing their cost to purely stone allows them to retain their relevance well into late bronze age. You could potentially burn off all of your food/gold on swords and all of your stone on axes. Plus it fits thematically because you’re using stone as a weapon in the stone/tool age.
This would basically give players a choice: either save stone for walls or build a large foot army quickly. You’d be either civilized with walls, barbarian with lots of axes or a blend of both.
Also, improving the axemen would give counter-units like bowmen more meaning as well even if you don’t change their cost too.
@Lithen777 said:
@the_choson_one said:
Part of the AoE classic gameplay is well-balancing the food you use to investigate/advance age or to recruit early-game troops. If you can advance fastly and have an early army too… what’s the point on Stone and Tool ages?
Currently the axemen get completely replaced with the stronger swordsmen starting bronze because they both cost food. Instead of giving axemen upgrades (which I’m not opposed to) to make them stronger, changing their cost to purely stone allows them to retain their relevance well into late bronze age. You could potentially burn off all of your food/gold on swords and all of your stone on axes. Plus it fits thematically because you’re using stone as a weapon in the stone/tool age.
This would basically give players a choice: either save stone for walls or build a large foot army quickly. You’d be either civilized with walls, barbarian with lots of axes or a blend of both.
Also, improving the axemen would give counter-units like bowmen more meaning as well even if you don’t change their cost too.
I cannot agree with you. Axemen become useful again when the map runs out of gold, for example. Of course if they cost some amount of stone will be somekind of logic, but costing food does too (they are human beings, and eat food). I think their food cost is good for the game-balance: don’t forget axemen are primitive warriors, so balancing investigation and primitive warriors in Stone and Tool ages seems too logic for me, and gives more importance to initial ages than only going as fast as possible to reach Bronze Age, that would be the effect of halving food cost of axemen…
@Lithen777
@the_choson_one
That and early Bronze age, when trying to decide between Swords, or Siege, or Improvements and such.
A tool rush by a competent player will end the game for you.
If you are heavily tool rushed early the last thing you want to do is go bronze unless you are walled in, as by the time you get there your villagers will be dying or on the run, you might crank out one cavalry man to get overwhelmed. You are better off trying to counter attack with the 800 food or running and hoping they don’t have scouts. This isn’t AOK where your villagers have the loom and you can hide in a TC firing arrows.
A good tool rusher will be building tool age troops whilst keeping his economy pumping villagers and in a 3v3 he will have small wall to protect against vengeful allies.
Don’t forget the clubmen will be being built whilst the tool rusher advances to Tool. You can have three clubmen hitting your villagers with the first armour pretty early on. Minutes spent by villagers running or fighting clubs (bad idea) means lost economy and gathering time.