Bastion walls need a nerf

I was thinking about Wall price doubling every 10 segments, so by the endgame, they would be very hard to repace, while you could still maintain a reasonable Wall around your Town.


Yes. Or you could decide to wall off just your infinite economy. You don’t need to replicate the Great Wall on every single map. With several layers.

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Ah, what I meant was the bastion price increasing progressively, and then after the research is done the walls would cost an extra 5g, not the walls themselves getting more and more expensive… but that’s actually a good idea, it wouldn’t kill the walling but it would avoid the obnoxious wall-spam. I like it(doubling cost every 10 segments might be too much for treaty tho)

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Walls protecting your economy from back door drops are a reasonable thing. Walls protecting half the map are not, which is what usually happens in treaty.


Its happening in supremacy aswell. Take a look at the videos I posted. 4 Layers of 7500 HP bastion walls is common if the game drags out. In the game against Lakota, the Ottoman players kept building walls as a way to win engagements against Lakota’s army. Eventually the game ended as Ottoman got to build enough walls up through the middle of the map. Of course Lakota didn’t lose the game but chose to quit. Eventually though, the entire map would have been covered in Walls by the Ottoman player.

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I dont know your ELO so i cant really comment on it. If you are at the top then disregard my comment. However if it is at the middle you can actually stop dutch very easily (turtle and all).

Plus early cheese? with france? what is that strat.

Dutch going wall + bastion bastion at an early age is a HUGE investment in resources that the eco cannot support. Dutch cannot get walls + Banks + army. They need at least 7/8 mins for their setup (without raiding), which france can stop with early raid.

Banks are only 4 unupgraded vils until age IV so if you pressure dutch constantly they cannot hold, while CdB can get you a better eco in every way.

France also gets 2 falcs + skirms and Hussars which cause a huge dent early fortress. Dutch only get the investment from the banks after aging up, and they still need to get a decent mass of Ruyter and Skirm, which you are able to counter in the early stages.

With all this i am just saying that i dont believe that walls should be expensive or having lower HP (albeit they can be improved), because the civs that really need it, need good walls to survive.

Being constructive here - you could make bastion a lower improvement (with price reductions), and add the extra HP to walls in Heavy Fortifications. But i am guessing that the result would be actually worse.

I agree. I see it happening in supremacy at my (above average) ELO quite a lot.
Usually the game goes like this:

Everyone minds their own business until around 10-12 minutes, at which point someone does a timing attack or an all out push. If the attack fails (mostly does so, since people are pretty proficient at holding off attacks), the attacker and/or defender builds a wall and upgrades it almost instantly to bastion. At this point the play is frozen. Nobody bothers to attack the wall cause they know it’s back up instantly and there isn’t enough fire power to tear down the wall, wipe the enemy army and wipe a sizable chunk of their base. Even if you manage to push through, a single villi can close the wall and cut off your advance army.

If the timing doesn’t happen, people naturally wall off once in fortress age so they can proceed with late industrial-imperial booming. Often time a 2nd and 3rd layer of walls appear.

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You are clearly biased… It’s sad to read your post…

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In Treaty, high-level players tend to simultaneously fight with their main armies while building huge, ridiculous walls from one side of the map to the other, in order to retain map control.

Though I am used to this kind of playstyle and playing against it, I certainly agree that it drags the game out so much longer than it should. Games then become a game of attrition, where the winner is decided by who manages their economy better, whose economy IS better, and who is actually winning the fights and doesn’t need to replenish units.

I think a slight bastion nerf would be good, but it can’t be dramatic. In the perspective of treaty games, I can already foresee Japanese Daimyos running behind a player’s base, easily getting through walls with Japanese mortars or mass exalted samurais. And definitely, there would be a resurgence of complaints for treaty games, concerning the lame playstyle of massing Imperial Oprichniks.

If it does need a nerf, let wall HP be like 5000 (minimum) to maybe around 6000 HP. Any less than that, you’re gonna really open up the game to lame Oprichnik massing and Lakota heavy cav seiging, etc. And increasing the time to build walls would be a good idea too.

I think just add a gold cost and scale it with the upgrade

The solution is simple. Nerf the unit siege damage. Oprichnik Siege was already nerfed. Lakota siege was already nerfed.

The groundwork has been done. Now nerf Bastion walls to stop this horrendous wall spam. I could never get myself to play or watch treaty after seeing those terrible multi-layered walls and player constantly rebuilding walls into an unorganized mess.

It looks terrible. It is terrible to watch. It plays terrible. There is no fun in having to dedicate a big part of your APM to constantly rebuilding the same walls. Its a mindless task devoid of strategy. Unlike rebuilding units where you make decision based on your opponents army and your army. Or moving your army around and fighting.

There is skill and strategy in planning out your walls. But not rebuilding the same wall segments for 30 minutes.


If bastion walls get nerfed badly, then it would most certainly cause a spike in oprichnik laming and Lakota sieging cav due to ease. Quite possibly again we’d see complaints on these forums about how OP those units are (as we already do right now). But I’m not against nerfing bastion walls. I just don’t think the resultant effects should make other units get nerfed even more (like opri seige damage). It really takes away from the original purpose of those units, and oprichniks really aren’t great at anything else except killing villagers and buildings.

Having to nerf the siege of other units to balance for bastion wall nerfs would really dilute some units.

If anything, I’m still down for deterring this heavy-walling gameplay by other means:
make (Bastion) walls cost a lot more,
greatly increase wall building time (which won’t affect treaty if you build everything before 40 minutes),
Or give the walls an HP nerf that isn’t too game-breaking (5000-6000HP).

The problem is that some civs in certain match ups really need walls
It sucks having to play like this some times but some civs like lakota for example will force you into having to stay in base and spam walls otherwise they can continually ignore your army and go for your economy every time you push out and it will force it into a long drawn out game.

Yes. And you can still build walls to slow down the enemy approach. Walls are supposed to give you time to react,not completely block aggression.

One way you could do it is to add an increase in cost after bastion has been researched like making it cost 10w or something like that.
Some civs really need walls early in certain match ups to survive early timings, so considering normal walls are already 1.5k hp only it could remain 5w until bastion is researched

Its really weird seeing people complain here about walls. If its one thing were AoE III is weak at is defencive play.

Walls arent as strong lol even bastions I dont know what you guys do, but the “they can rebuild fast” is not a good argument seeing in the midst of battle people have other things to care about and multitasking when also building walls is difficult, besides when you come at the point where there are more then 2 layers of walls you are either playing a treaty game or you let the others dig themselfs in. Even then there are so many units that completely destroy walls. On top of that there are also so many upgrades that increase attack.

Aztecs: Skull knight has massive bonus damage + their spearman not even counting for the dance which increases more.

British: Grenadiers, pikeman and mortars

Chinese: I havent played China much, but pretty sure they have good siege units.

Dutch: Grenadiers, Halbedier, Pikeman and mortars.

French: Grenadiers, Gendarme, Halbedier and mortars.

Germans: Doppelsoldner (op against buildings) and mortars.

Iroqouis: Manlet, Field cannon, battle ram and also not forgetting the dance.

Incas: Idk havent played them really, although probably the mace one and they also have the dance.

Indians: Same for Chinese although I believe the elephant cannon is good.

Japanese: Samurai (op) and ronin (even more op)

Lakota: dog soldier, axe rider, club man and dont forget the dance.

Ottomans: Grenadier, Abus?, Great bombard and mortars.

Portugueze: Grenadiers, halbediers, organ guns and mortars.

Russians: Opprich, grenadier, halbedier and mortars

Spanish: Pikeman, halbedier(?), grenadiers and mortars.

Swedes: Pikeman, mortars.

Besides that all Europeans also have petards and I am pretty sure some Asians can get them via consulate.

Every civ has atleast one good siege unit and or even more. If you dont want to make the siege units its your problem not the game. And if that doesnt work you can always use tuck tuck tuck.


Half of the units you mention take forever to take down a single bastion wall (like Pikeman, Gendarmes or cavalry other than opriks and Lakota), or require absurd numbers that make you vulnerable to counter switch.


I used to play france in teams a lot back in the day and I can tell gendarmes bring down bastion walls pretty quickly, specially with all the upgrades. Even better if you have the upgrade from the advanced arsenal to improve their siege

Most cost few pops and no it doesnt take forever.

It’s not always practical to have a dedicated mass of units hitting buildings. By the time you’ve gotten one wall down, the proper counter units are ready to meet you. It really is easy and fast… if you’re that one guy who spams one siege unit while your team 2v3’s