OK agreed about 1). What about the other points
Also, with a winrate similar to Indians, the Goths are also as ‘overpowered’ as Indians. So why is there talk of buffing Goths(giving free loom etc), but no talk of buffing the unusable pitiful Ele archers?
Lower ELOs still see Indians with a good winrate, they are balanced.
Elephant Archers are not even needed in the first place, Indians already have a very strong Archery Range, and EAs are their version of Arbalests, but more tanky and with less range.
The fishing bonus is not nerfed at all, and the main Indian eco bonus is that their Vills cost less with every Age, and they boom very easily.
Because both Viper and Hera think they are trash. They are clearly also OP.
How is the fishing bonus not nerfed? The indians now have only 10% more over generic civs.
Because both Viper and Hera think they are trash. They are clearly also OP.
So why was there no Goths seen in any single tournament?
They can now drop at the Docks, which is a huge change, and they still work faster than other Fishermen.
Probably public perception issues, and an inflexible Tech Tree.
Yes but the question was, how is the fishing bonus not nerfed? The indians now have only 10% more over generic civs.
Probably public perception issues, and an inflexible Tech Tree.
Are these traits of an ‘Overpowered’ civilization?
Would you still call Goths ‘overpowered’ , disagreeing with basically every professional AoE player out there playing tournaments?
Indians already have a very strong Archery Range
I don’t think a civilization missing Arbalester can be called to have "a very strong Archery Range
"
They can be. Persians, for example, are much weaker than anticipated in the higher ELOs, but still widely popular. They are more balanced than one would believe, according to their popularity.
They have litrally everything else, and a bonus to HCs.
Indians are definitely a Camel + Archery Range civ. Having FU Cav Archers + HC + FU Elite Skirmisher is already enough to be considered an Archer civ.
They can be. Persians, for example, are much weaker than anticipated in the higher ELOs, but still widely popular. They are more balanced than one would believe, according to their popularity.
Let us see, not like I know for sure either.
If we are all to go by 1600+ civ winrates, then what buffs have you suggested to the Portugese, the Burmese, the Magyars and the Koreans? I would love to hear about those.
If these four are buffed, I wouldn’t mind Indians not using Elephants for now.
Don’t you agree?
Those do need buffs, but I would not exactly know how to buff them all. For Ports, I think the Gold discount should be increased to 20%-25%.
Urgent buffs are needed to Organ Guns, Turtle Ships, Shotels, Cornivian Army tech and of course buffs to the Turks, Portugese, Magyars, Ethiopians civ bonuses
Organ Guns : Remove minimum range
Turtle Ships : Cost down to 140W 140G from 180W 180G
Cornivian Army : -10 gold on Huszar AND Knights. Only then will it be worth the 200F 300G considering it doesnt add any combat value to units.
Portugese : -25% Gold on all units, -15% too weak right now
Koreans : -20% Wood on all non-siege units, same reason as portugese, too weak discount right now.
Turks : +33% Gold mining speed instead of +20% (no need to give them better trash, they could be made even better at what they’re supposed to do) AND/OR free Ballistics
Magyars : Villagers have +1 attack (could be fun, compensates for fewer wolves)
Ethiopians : Shotel Warrior cost 40F 30G instead of 50F 35G
Turks already perform at higher than 45% winrate, which means they are balanced.
Yes Indians should be given war elephants or battle elephants. Also elephant archers speed and attack should be increased. Elephant can run fast in reality.
Indians are a solid civ, their disc. vills is a good bonus, and I don’t think they need the BE (they already have the IC), though they need to change their EA, as they are right now they are useless.
Since fish is gathered really fast, that +10% still represent a big increase. And the dock gimmick really helps them on Nomad for instance. I guess now Indian are nerfed on some weird maps like Slopes , but it’s not like no one wants to see this map anymore with all the mirrors 11
They were like that at release and everyone hated fighting them.
These two buffs at the same time would be ridiculous. Currently Turtle ships are 153w 180g, after that they would be 112w 140 gold; Given how good they are in early Castle that would just be insane.
They already got a buff on this bonus. And you should remember that it’s not because they suck at Arabia 1v1 that you should make them OP in settings they are already good in, like Arena. Trust me you don’t want such a huge boost sustaining a mass Janissary+mangonel army.
You’re literally the first person ever who thought this tech is bad. Magyar Huszar are just insane and on top of that you want the civ to have cheaper Palas? That’s nuts.
It depends on the details of how they changed the wolf count. Maybe they removed the wolves that are in the corner of the map that only annoy you when you try to set up a trade, but left those who stand between the enemy bases to avoid making forward vills strats easier.
Yes that is historically accurate. There were elephant stables in Indian Kingdoms
The free ballistics is a very good bonus for their cav archer. Beware OPness, but I will give it a try.
The villager magyar bonus sound interesting, but they can be exploited in the form of some nasty trushes…
I dont know if shotel warriors are bad or not. I only now that a few of them can destroy a woodline, and I use them for that. With this price discount, they could be used as an emergency defense, like karambit warriors. I would give it a try too,
They were like that at release and everyone hated fighting them.
OK how about -5G price alongwith portugese -25% Gold price, effectively reducing 13 gold?
These two buffs at the same time would be ridiculous. Currently Turtle ships are 153w 180g, after that they would be 112w 140 gold; Given how good they are in early Castle that would just be insane.
You should consider the gold cost. They would cost more gold than a mangonel and almost 5 times as much gold as a galleon still. If not this, atmost 120W 150G would be good afaik. This big of a buff is required for them to be seen in competitive play
You’re literally the first person ever who thought this tech is bad. Magyar Huszar are just insane and on top of that you want the civ to have cheaper Palas? That’s nuts.
I’m not the first. Check the discussion on this tech Corvinian Army | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom
Right now, it is only mathematically worth it if the player makes more than 35 Magyar Huszars. This is not considering the castle time used in researching this, and also the opportunity cost of having a UT that could actually benefit their UU combat stats.
Maybe. Usually people like Organ guns, and fortunately they should feel strong again once they get rid of their bug.
The good new is that once both you and your opponent hit Castle, the Turtle’s ship monstruous stats mean that all their fire galleys, even if they upgrade them, are going to be useless. All they can do is to try and mass War Galleys asap before they get swept. There was a series (dunno if it was a showmatch or a tournament) where there was a map with a lot of hybrid terrain. The Korean towers + turtle combo proved to be extremely brutal and rekt stuff like mass fire galleys or even conqs (!) Eventually the enemy managed to mass defenses and war galleys, but it was too late and the Korean player would have their own mass of war galleys as well as siege.
I’m genuinely surprised 11 Well, I get the idea behind this, but Magyar Huszar are so good that you’re going to build way more than 35 of them. If it does need a buf however then making the tech cheaper would make more sense.
Yeah, indians are really good. The fish nerf was necessary. Nevertheless, i fail to see how giving them elephants would make them op. I mean, imperial camels are, overall, a much more dangerous unit than EBE. Plus, it’s not you are going to use both units.
Koreans: in my mod i gave them free armor for archers. Korean lack any decent military bonus (except towers -.-) they usually play archers, sonce the lack bloodlines. And archers is a logical move for make after going towers.
Portuguese : again, lack a good military bonusm in my mod I gave them scouts /lightcavs that attack faster. It open it’s game, gives them a better feudal, and better raiding possibilities.alsog I gave them cheaper blacksmith and university (-100 wood each building)
And after a long thinking, i came to the conclusion that magyars are okey.
Indians’ boomis insane. But giving them good elephants (battle or archer ones, or both) wouldn’t change them, since camels and CA fill those rolls as well