They should have never done it, since it opened the flood gates.
Be real. What matter is They HAVE done it now. Dont live in theories. This is the truth that they have done it. It now leaves any reasons for continuing to deny Indians regular Battle elephants with no bonuses.
Heck, the Mongols even get their SL with 30% extra HP, so they even get Bonus on it. We are not even asking for a Elephant bonus for Indians.
Not according to the winrate. Mongols are not even top 5.
Balance is the only reason they need. Indians must have no form of Heavy Cavalry, because it would be OP.
For now, but you would soon ask for it afterwards.
And how can you see the future? How are you so sure.
This is not fair to be talking like this. Nobody ever said to give Indians Elephants with bonus.
In fact I have written in the title and OP that Indians could be balanced after adding Battle elephants in case they seem Overpowered.
So you would rather have the Indians civ be stripped of their uniqueness, just so they could have BEs?
I never said âstripped of their uniquenessâ, what I said meant ârebalanced, keeping in mind their uniquenessâ, so donât think something else.
And yes, Indians not using Mahout Elephants is simply not a correct depiction. I will not mind if some bonuses now are weakened by them rightfully getting BA, EBA
I mean, what you mind or not is kinda irrelevant. They already have elephants. Theyâre not getting battle elephants. Get over it.
You have absolutely no viable points. Your suggestion is not necessary historically, it does not make sense from a balance perspective, it only adds extra work to change the civ for no reason.
Itâs a terrible idea on virtually every level.
They would jsut become another cheap âminor bonii, do everythingâ civ.
I think the problem is steppe lancers didnât change Mongols one bit. Xbows and knights are still their castle age play.
Sure, Indians as a civ donât make any sense historically but its too late to redesign Indians because theyâre a competent meta civ right now
Yeah, in their current state, steppe lancers donât offer much to the Mongols. Adding them was a choice clearly made from a historical perspective, which, if it doesnât make a difference balance-wise, works out. Battle Elephants would be a different matter entirely, considering they have camels, not knights. It would dramatically change the way they play.
Daily friendly reminder that âboniiâ is not a real word! Not only is it like calling multiple moose âmeeseâ, itâs like using âmeeseâ to refer to ducks!
Nobody cares. Get with the times, it is in the Urban Dictionary.
You have absolutely no viable points.
Wow. So this is how one debates.
Big claims require big evidence.
Your suggestion is not necessary historically
You declare big things, but never say how they are true, except saying âbalanceâ , or âunnecessary workâ.
How do you get to decide if they are ânecessary historicallyâ or not.
The civilization that has used more elephants than all others combined (if you dont believe me check Wikipedia on Indian history) are not ânecessary historicallyâ to get them.
I believe I listed multiple reasons immediately prior.
Indians had elephants historically, and they have elephants in the game. The historical requirement is fulfilled. If your argument is that they need to be 100% historically accurate, then the meso civs shouldnât have champions or halbs, knights in full plate should be indestructible to lesser troops, and there should only be seven paladins in the entire game.
Except weâre not playing a game based around absolute historical realism, weâre playing a game based around gameplay balance.
If they didnât have any elephants at all, youâd have a point. But they do have elephants, and therefore you have absolutely no point whatsoever.
Youâre proposing dramatically revamping the civ, including, by your own words, nerfs to counteract their additional power, simply to add elephants to a civ that already has them, and otherwise keep them exactly the same.
Itâs practically the archetype of a bad idea. Youâre not just changing the thing you want, youâre also causing numerous ripple-effect changes, just to keep the civ in the exact same place.
I canât think of something worse than a change that has absolutely no benefit and numerous downsides.
11111111111 Oh man I can hardly breathe. 36 votes since it was added in 2006! Oh yes, I shall most definitely bow beneath the weight of your 2.5 votes a year! Clearly it is the will of the populace!
They donât have melee elephants(Mahout elephants), which were used more in India than all other civs combined, despite the Mongols retroactively getting Steppe Lancers and despite there being a unit from the stable specifically for that purpose.
And the other civs donât have elephant archers, which also existed in places other than just india. Your point is invalid.
I never even mentioned the other civs here. I am talking only about the Indians. And no, the other civs did not use Archers atop Elephants regularly.
Whereas the Indians used Mahout elephants for millenia all the way upto British Raj
Portuguese are also poorly represented (should have been an Heavy Infantry Pike & Shotte civ) and the Caravels ingame are not Caravels at all, but Naus (Carracks), yet you do not hear me complain, or demand a redesign to introduce Imperial Pikemen.
My goodness, this is the dumbest discussion ever. I suggest you go back and read what Iâve said several times now about gameplay balance being more important than absolute historical realism.
Look, you can argue all you want, it ainât gonna happen. The indians are in a pretty good spot, balance-wise. Devs have no reason to upset the cabbage cart.
So youâve got two choices. Waste your time wailing and tearing your clothes over a change that makes no sense from a gameplay perspectiveâŠor try to find a way to make the Elephant Archer actually useful.
Keep wasting your time if you want, I really donât care.
You may complain. In that case, i will even support you if you want. But my request will naturally take priority because :
There already exists a unit which is Elephant with mahout , and the civilizations that border India on the east already have it, despite not using elephants nearly as much as India did.
Mongols have now officially been given Steppe Lancers WITH A HP BONUS, retroactively, which means the next logical step is to similarly acknoledge the use of melee elephants(tusked elephants) in India
or try to find a way to make the Elephant Archer actually useful.
Iâve already made huge Reddit threads and AOE forum threads on that but didnt get much replies on this site yet
And even in this patch, they are not fixing the Ele archers which is just unbeleivable.
No, because completely redesigning a workin civ with over 50% winrate, is silly.
Even Ports do not need to be redesigned, they just need to be buffed.
Indians need nothing.
Because they are fine, they are anti-Archer, and anti-Tower, Cav Archers.