What do you think about this strat? Do Berbers need a nerf?
This strat is actually quite good that arabia is supposed to be have early aggrssion as soon as possible. Khmer also have this kind of dark age bonus that they can garrsion into a house so I think it do not need any nerf
Usually when people talk about changing Berbers I’ll say something like “Berbers have a good winrate yet they’re not oppressive enough in any one scenario that you ever hear anyone complain about them. They’re perfect for the current meta, don’t change them.” I am unable to use that line here, because I’ve just met the one person (possibly a slight exaggeration) who does complain about Berbers.
And yet, no, I don’t think the Berber early game needs to be nerfed. They don’t get a true eco bonus, and their stable discount only comes online in the castle age. Aside from 10% faster villagers (and ships) Berbers are completely generic in both dark and feudal age. I don’t think the movement speed is quite strong enough to make an otherwise unboosted civ OP. Maaaybe on Socotra one could make that argument, not on Arabia. In my opinion that is.
Regardless of civ, early aggressions are costly for the attacker since your economy will be worse than the defender IF the aggression failed to kill any villager. The faster villager speed of Berber does make the villager rush (possibly douching) abit more viable.
1500 is not high elo…
And red did tons of mistakes, not going to wood as soon as he could and probably "Berber ####### isnt a thing, you can abandon your TC and re-place it.
Tower also got no value, in general it’s embarrassing to lose while 1 age ahead.
I’ve coppied some berber early tower rush strategy and it workd superbly.
You just surround enemy wood and gold line with lots of fast moving vils and some light cav + archers. it’s quite hard to counter. you just keep building all of your stuff around the enemy base.
When you get to castle (quite late, of course) just build lots of workshops and rams to knockdown houses and TC.
It is quite annoying.
I mean 1500 is the 92nd percentile, so id argue it’s pretty high.
Agreed, but it’s understandable how people can get misled into thinking it isn’t high. They (presumably) reason that TheViper has 2700 elo (or whatever), and 1500 is much less than 2700, therefore 1500 is low. It can be hard to appreciate that it’s the percentile, and not the number itself, that’s relevant.
(Where’s your data from, by the way? I’d be interested to see the distribution.)
They were numbers I derived myself the 92 is interpolated though but it can’t be far off.
sure purely statistically, it’s high. But I would say people still make tons of mistakes in 1500. In my opinion using this 1 game to prove a point is far-fetched and I don’t believe Berbers vill rush is OP or a thing. It falls under cheese strats that you see in 1500-1800 elo, like sending 6th vill to wall in 1st lumber camp etc. People at that elo generally don’t expect laming so it can pay off but that’s just because everyone is so tunnel-visioned on “let’s fight with archers in Feudal” type of gameplay.
Yes totally agree. Just like the bad old day that people expecting fc into knight rush in every single green arabia game. Berbers vill rush viable actually give player more option and make the game better