What civ best counters them? All they do is pump out units in fed and crush me
play aggressively in Feudal and Castle age and try to make the units your civ is good with.
Best counters to Goths in yhe late game are civs with an emphasis on melee units like Teutons, Bulgarians (Teutons can go full Teutonic Knights with few Skirms to counter HC switch + Siege, Bulgarians can go their 2HS with the UT), or on counter-units like Byzantines (Cataphract Skirm BBC works here).
Your key unit in Imperial (should the game go to Imperial) is the Handcannoneer assuming you are anything other than these 3 civs.
But really vs Goths, try to not make the game drag on too long, remember that until they get to their desired composition of Halb Huskarl Champion, their civ is fully generic with a very minor eco bonus (+1 vills). In Castle Age, they are unlikely to mass a lot of Knights, since they lack +4 armor in Imp, and they are unlikely to mass a lot of Crossbowmen, since they lack Arbalest upgrade, so their Castle Age is typically either some very awkward 4-5TC boom with an early defensive Castle which is fairly easy to punish (just push from the sides that don’t have a defensive Castle), or they can go 1 TC all in Knights + Monks + Siege or something but really here almost every civ beats this style if you use your civ bonuses correctly (e.g. Byzantines if you see he is going 1 TC all in you can respond with 3 TC boom with defensive Monks into 2 Barracks Pikeman switch when you boomed a bit and can spare a few resources for the Pikemen).
Really Goths are one of the weakest civs once you understand how the game actually works because both of their strats of 4-5TC boom and 1 TC all in are easy to beat if you scout them while in Feudal age they are fully generic unless you die to forward Barracks MAA which you shouldn’t if you open Archers with a proper BO.
Goths become scary in their late game spam. Just attack them early and dont step of the gas. Just continu pushing him.
-Strong infatry civs can easly beat goths.
Japanese, burmese, bulgarians, teutons, aztecs etc
-If you manage to mass cata, byzantines probably the best anti-goths civ.
-Due to lack of last armor upgrage, stepp lancers can trade well againts everything, goths have.
there is also gurjaras with chakram thrower. Once you mass 30 of them with some Shrivamsha riders, the ennemy goth is powerless.
Goths have a decent dark age and then they are basicially generic until imp. This means you have to not die to them early, and then kill them before they reach imp which most civs should be able to do.
Basicially, play dark age a little bit more defensive than you usually would, then go archers in feudal and whatever your civ does best in castle and you should win.
Huskarls are actually not that cheap compared to other infantry. The faster training time is nice, but I always felt it was a bit overrated. Their usual huskarl/champion/haberdier line-up gets countered by champion spam, since they lack the final armor upgrade. They don’t get supplies, so their champs aren’t much cheaper than normal ones.
There are a lot of civs that counter them, but anything that can make good champions works.
They don’t get supplies, so their champs aren’t much cheaper than normal ones.
There are a lot of civs that counter them, but anything that can make good champions works.
In Imperial age Goth champions cost 39 food and 13 gold, that is overall 20% cheaper than champions from other civs with supplies (45+20), what means you can make 25% more for the same total ressources.
The missing last armor upgrade means Goth champions take 13 instead of 12 damage from other champions, that is 8% more.
However if the other player has strong champions, I am not sure if Goth Champions are the best option against it forthe Goth. Maybe Handcanoneers are better. Especially if the other infantry is even stronger than fully upgraded champions, I think Handcanoneers is the way to go.
I recently played Teutonic Knights against Goth. I dominated Castle age. Then I lost Imperial age against Goth Handcanooneers. What should I make as Teutons against it? Paladin? Then the Goth can make Halbs. If I use Handcanoneers myself, the Goth can just make Huskarls.
Siege+TK can work, you just need to wall the sides. Pala+Skirm will be very gold efficient with good micro, but hard to pull off. Straight pala with enough trebs behind might overpower goths if he didnt add enough barracks. If you have to gold you can also go champ+cav (the cav if there are enemy HCs, otherwise its not needed).
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Well, I’d probably still make champions. Hand canonners are nice, but they still die in 2 hits vs Huskarls. Teutons Champions kill huskarls and goth champions in 5 hits and die in 7, that compensate for the price difference.
Maybe transit to heavy scorpions ? Your scorpions counter Goth infantry + hand canoneers (do not forget siege engineers for more range).
But then you still need units to snipe onagers and bbc (like your better bbcs or a few cavaliers).
I think you can choose between scorpions and hand cannoners, but you need a frontline. At least your better halberdiers, and add champions if possible.
I personaly wouldnt make paladins in 1v1 as they are too expensive, especially against a civ with strong halberdiers.
this is not how it works, Goths rely on 3 units yes but they mix different proportions based on what they see from the enemy. If you go full Champion, Goths go full Champion back and beat you due to 3 factors:
- their Champion is cheaper
- they produce faster (Perfusion + TB)
- they play with 10 more pop
especially point 3 means you are always at a disadvantage in 200 pop battles.
There are civs that can go full infantry vs Goths but those are generally either civs with a good UU or really good Champion-line. So Aztecs, Teutons, Bulgarians come to mind.
Generally if you slightly overproduced units of the wrong type as Goths, you can sack the Halbs as they are cheap and don’t cost gold, Goth Champion will always trade well vs any melee unit and Huskarls are average vs other melee units but you normally send them on a flank and to raid the enemy base you don’t make them fight Teutonic ########### Champions, even a few Huskarls under your TCs are extremely annoying and generally require you to send troops back (so they require APM to be dealt with basically).
Also it’s worth noting that Goths have Handcannoneer and BBC so it’s not like they have to go full infantry.
even without Supplies, Goths Champion wins in terms of efficiency vs many civs. Excluding here the counter civs like Teutons or Aztecs, there are only like 5 civs in the game with such a strong late game that they can beat the fully-boomed Goths flood.