Meso-civs tend to be gold intensive Since they lack regular calvary and have Eagle warriors instead a unit which is incredible gold intensive both Mayans and Aztecs have a bonus that helps offset this and so I am purposing giving incas a bonus that replaces 5/10/15/20% of their gold cost with either food or wood depending on what resource other resource the unit cost. Incas are a counter unit civs (also a defensive and Infantry civ) however only one of their trash units has a bonus (in the form of a garbage UT) And the rest of their counter units cost gold. and would be greatly helped by this bonus. Alternatively, you could at least change slinger to 40F 30G
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I like my suggestion on my balance changes list of replacing Andean Sling with El Dorado, making Eagles cost 30% less gold, and then renaming the current El Dorado to Cotton Armor. Both Mayans and Aztecs have A) better Eagles anyway, and B) a gold bonus (Longer lasting res, and extra starting gold + faster relic generation), so it seems fair.
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Indeed a longer lasting Gold bonus would make so much more sense for Incas.
I don’t necessarily agree with the proposals of @Ifavorwining and @TheConqueror753 cause imo the best bonus for incas would be the malian longer lasitng gold.
I love the idea of renaming El Dorado but I don’t think Incas should get a tech with that name. El Dorado wasn’t a Mayan thing, but it wasn’t Inca either. The real El Dorado was the Muisca Confederacy which can’t be represented by the Incas cos they’re too far apart in every sense and should really be their own civ.
An Inca tech reducing gold cost could be called something referring to trade or the Incas taxation system. The Incas didn’t need or use money in their society, so I’d call the tech Ayni, which was the Inca system of reciprocity. Essentially, because the Incas give to each other and don’t need money, Eagle Warriors cost less gold.
Or just give them a bonus which removes/lessens the gold cost of Barracks techs.
So you’re nerfing their early game (you want Eagles to cost more gold at the early castle age when you go all-in 1TC Eagles, which is pretty basic, you dont want to invest if food heavy farming eco). Which is already just a mediocre mid-early game since Trushing is no longer an option.
I think the obsession around gold efficiency in this community got out of control, it’s okay for a civ to not be efficient, methodically reducing gold cost of units is just turning the game into a little plain one rather than diverse.
The arguement should rather be: Do we get enough value for the gold invested in army? The answer is no, their Eagles are indeed worse than the others, and Kamayuks/Slingers just have no major purpose in the game since the civ has FU Halbs/Arbalesters.
I’d increase stats on the Slinger (Range or movement speed) while also increasing its gold cost to 45g rather than 40g.
Incas may have many options, but since all of them are quirky we’re left with a generic Arbs and a worse version of the Eagles. In order to justify Incas being the only meso civ without a major eco bonus we need to give them a military buff, sheer strength, not a discount.
Like what? It’s all very well and good to point fingers and shoot down ideas and say everyone just wants to Keshikize everything, but if you aren’t going to suggest alternatives, that greatly reduces the strength of your arguments. No one likes to always be told their ideas are bad by someone who doesn’t even have any suggestions.
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Uhh, I mean, Kamayuks are kind of a super-unit lol. Post Imp also pretty strong vs Archers. Having other options than FU Halbs/Arbs is always nice, and Kamayuks complement that very nicely.
But I do agree that being reliant on Gold is not a bad thing from a balancing point of view. Aztecs don’t have that strong of a strong gold bonus either, but they make up for it with their faster training time.
Maybe Andean Sling could give additional damage as well, similarly to Atlatl? Instead of range and +1 damage, you get no minimum range and +1 damage on Skirms and Slingers. While Mayans just have a +missile.
May I remind that Eagles cost 20 food? It’s cheaper than anything else in the entire game. I think the high Gold cost is supposed to pay for the speed of the unit.
Thats not a very big issue for Incas with their OP farming bonus. In all serious that was both intentional and a very minor nerf even in Imp Incas EW are more gold intensive Cavalier. In CA this only accounts 7 resources eagle spam is kind of Op in CA because you can sustain it on what is almost clown eco. also considering how op this is in post Imp it is a very reasonable trade off
Kamayuks are not a bad unit once sufficiently massed they beat Champions with equal resources they also do not recieve bonus damage form ARBS/Skirms and with Fabric shields they 20 shots from an Arbalest compared to a Halbs
Thes one could work. The +1 damage overlap with aztecs bothers me a little bit. Maybe the damage increase could be for the slingers only.
Kamayuks are a good unit already, but a +5 HP could help their survavility. They’re not like woad raiders or bersekers that can chase down archers.
I’m not sure what they need, but what they don’t need is the blacksmith bonus now that it’s useless. Better to save it for a new civ (the whole bonus, starting from feudal) that doesnn’t do well at trushing.
Also remember that slingers were weaker than old HCs. Which was fine because of their price and accuracy. Now HCs got buffed twice last year.
I’d buff slingers proportionally to what they gave to HCs, but also give them back their 5 attack that was nerfed when DE came out.
How about skirms and slingers get no minimum range and +15 or 20 hp.
I don’t feel like survivability is their problem. They already are a ranged unit that is supposed to fight agains the enemy frontline, so ideally . I don’t know, honestly, it could end up working.
I also think we need an Elite Slinger upgrade. My idea below:
Elite Slinger Added. Elite Slinger costs 800F, 500W, and takes 30 seconds to research. Elite Slingers have 50 HP, and 6 attack. Their projectile speed increases from 5.5 to 6, and their minimum range is removed. They have 1 pierce armor, all other stats are the same as regular slinger. This is just to add a tech that feels like it’s missing.
You’re only factoring in one vs one. Eagle Warriors become much stronger in team games when you have access to trade. (cheaper food cost as well when compared to a knight) Not to mention these civs are quite good at rushing. So you can weaken your enemy and then invest in trade rather easily.
Eagles are terrible in TGs. Trade or no, they die too easily to the main power units. Maybe you see them in your kind of games, but Meso civs basically are always played as archer civs in most team games.
I think Incas do fine in TGs with Kamayuks, they’re a fine power unit. I guess Mayans have Plumes, but depending on maps, the Plumes might not be that great either.
Slingers are kinda in a funny spot, because by having a gold cost, it should have better generic damage output, not be a Skirmisher with bonus damage. Yet if they become on par with Crossbows, they’re unstoppable. 