Big Sicilian rework idea, defensive civ change

Hello, I have several ideas for changes that would make Sicilians a legitimate def civ. Here are the changes:
-Remove the 2X farm food bonus
-Defensive structures built 100% faster (walls, gates, castles, donjons(up the time), town center), this would make stone walling a legit strat in 1v1 open maps
-Stone lasts 30% longer (like Malians, but for the res you want to make full use of as a Sicilians)
-Serjeant change, make them able to repair ANYTHING (buildings, siege, walls)
-make donjons count towards feudal age buildings (maybe? Give players a reason to make it in feudal other than a donjon rush)

Optional changes:
-return the 33% bonus resist back to 50% (at 33% it’s useless)
-change Hauberk for a more defensive tech (Serjeants can build walls and military buildings; Donjon buff tech or stone prices cheaper idk.)
-add Thumb Ring for an optional generic archer once Hauberk is removed (still loses archer v archer because of the last armor missing, goes about the same against elite skirms as generic)

Honestly, Sicilians as they are now have terrible economy, awful late and early game at the expense of a somewhat “solid” mid game, and a lack of identity.

Straight to the point, thoughts and ideas are appreciated.


If 50% is given back, hauberk should be removed. If not, hauberk can be kept. Archer civs and some infantry civs had a tough time against hauberk cavalier while do not have access to HC. Halbs and monks could not easily counter it.


Yeah no, I get that. It’s more one or the other argument I agree. That being said, what do you think about them becoming a defensive civ with the ideas above?

What if the bonus dmg resist was 33% for cavalry, but 50% for everything else?

They are quite vulnerable to tower rush imo. So I am not sure how to make it a defensive civ.

Hello, i think this would be hard to implement, also it would be inconsistent to do so. Also, crazy thing i thought off just now, what if the bonus damage reduction is applied to monks and siege, but it’s 33%?

I believe that lowering the donjon build speed and faster wall building would offset this. Also making a donjon a feudal age building req.

Honestly It seem a bit too radicali change and defensive civs are not competitive in this game unless they have incredibile bonuses like teutons or very wide tech tree and discount like byzantines. The game is won by whoever is the most efficient in the shortest amount of time

Your change would remove the sole eco bonus sicilians have, and i do not think longer lasting Stone is that strong and is surely a niche and slow eco bonus

Imho sicilians should have simply better army options. Cheaper serjeants and serjeants elite upgrade, cheaper donjons and maybe counting as a barrack for prerequisites, maybe add thumb ring or last Archer armor to increase military options, as other strong cavalry civ have good archers or CA as well


there are several civs without any direct eco bonuses, and this one is barely useful. I’d take building walls twice as fast over it any day.

Look, this seems great, but that is just not gonna happen because of the fear of bonus damage negation being too strong. I believe making a big shift to an identity that they can legitimately claim (defensive civ) is the best thing for the civ.

Also, I did mention thumb ring as optional, but balancing hauberk and other comps would be required.

I love the idea. Have played Sicilians despite how weak they are and I would love it if some of these ideas got implemented. If there is anything else I’d add is maybe make a useful farm bonus. Like the farms are +50/100/150/200 food per age and/or +5/10/15/20 farm food carry capacity.

Hauberk cav is very expensive. Hauberk cost and arm. I do not think it would never happen ti see hauberk cav and arbalest. It’s unrealistic situation. Also civs like lithaunians have great cav but can also boost TR cav Archer and no one thinks they are OP

Faster walls is useless imho, It saves very little since sometimes you do not even want to wall, and it’s a super niche thing. Sicilians farm bonuses saves wood in the mid game allowing fornmore TCs, it’s not a great eco bonus but it’s flexible and not the worst at least

Nobody stone walls because its slow and expensive, this change would give sicilian players a legit option of being a defensive civ in feudal, and throughout the game

Great idea. They ought to hire a player who is an engineer and can code and help more with the balance of the game (PICK ME!). I agree that 33 percent negation feels weak and that returning it to 50 would be great, Hauberk is too expensive for what it gives as the cavalier still has to four-hit an arb to kill him instead of the Paladins three (also, Shrivamsha exists). I’d rather be a Burgundian Paladin than Sicilian cav.

Using Serjeants as military villagers would give them a unique advantage outside of “armor” since they’re slow and have low damage they’re quite useless.

Thumb ring wouldn’t make their arbs op since they’d still be weaker than generic arbs even against skirms (especially now that it’s 33% negation).

I’d push the defensive idea further and increase the range or damage of their def structure arrows per age (e.g. +1/2/3 range/damage in feudal/castle/imperial for Castles, TCs and Donjons). A turtle-shell civ that booms but still has fighting potential in castle (knights, serjeants, siege that can be repaired by serjeants). They’d still have a weak late and early game, so this would be an interesting and balanced civ IMO.

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I think people often underestimate how big of a Bonus more carry capacity really is, especially before handcart and wheelbarrow. Would easily make them better than slavs at farming.
Aztecs are about even with slavs on unupgraded farming and they only carry +3

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  • Change team bonus like villagers get +2 extra damage vs stone buildings.
  • Make farm 0 wood but it will slowly drain wood so sicilians will not have to invest tons of wood to farm, they can save wood for army.
  • Bonus damage reduction %33 at castle age and %50 at imperial age
  • Decrease cost of serjant, decrease defensive stats.
  • Change hauberks and decrease it cost. Knights and serjants get +20 more hp

May stone walls never become a “strat”!

Why not doe? Also, an option. People wall on 1v1s anyway, this gives them a boost in that. Why not have a defensive civ that actually has civ bonuses for building defenses?

I would rather giving back 50% than thumb ring. Actually I believe that Sicilians can be made to be an infantry civ. Make Condo regional unit and available for Sicilians (may be available from Castle age). Hauberk is replaced with UT buff base atk +6 of Condo. Serjeant get stat increase upon reaching imp and no elite upgrade.