Break heresy into 2 as well?

the devotion → faith is a pretty nice change especially some of these techs are super expensive and rarely used

if a pre heresy can be researched to grant ability of units above say 75% hp to die upon conversion, while units below 75% gets converted would be pretty nice. then a full heresy researched after would just be the current heresy which at any percentage of HP would die upon conversion though not sure if its doable and how many bugs it’d introduce

Not all civs should have the first onr. And frankly at this rate we’re gonna see 200 HP Aztec monks if we split all the techs


some indirect buff result such as aztec monk can be changed. if they can do +5 hp they can do +4 hp as well they just need to think of a balance for it. im not talking about that and i’ll leave that balance to them

I do want to see some more heresy action and see some more eles

I dont like it honestly

Aztecs dont deaetbe this and because they’re gonna still be dropping lots of gold for all the buffs the end result is more a nerf even if for the hypothetical eventually your HP can reach the thousands in a time unreasonable for a standard game

How about units lose 50% of their max HP on conversion. This will kill them if they are already below 50%.
That seems like a good inbetween state.
Both technologies should be 500 Gold. The first one is already pretty good so it can certainly be worth it.

This would allow removing Heresy from some civs and potential give this new tech to some Elephant civilisations.
Also Heresy itself would become in Imperial Age technology.


and they can do the balance of aztec monks if this does get implemented no issue.

thats another way to make it work as well. and i agree the tech shouldn’t be cheap otherwise it’ll just make heresy even more worthless. I think 500 might still be a bit too cheap maybe 600? or even 650g

It can also cost other resources besides just Gold. Adding 250 Food to it for example could make it hard to get in Castle Age.
Also Castle Age technologies are usually cheaper then Imperial Age technologies even if they give a greater bonus.

I feel that if we wish to see more eles in castle age then can’t really take away food. also so far only seems faith and it’s other pre-req tech cost food while rest should stay on gold.

Making it too cheap, would make Elephants too powerful.

Having a tech available that helps Elephants a lot against monks alone will help because just having the opportunity can make an enemy not go for monks.
Or gives you the opportunity to research the tech if the enemy went for monks, so they wasted all their gold.

monk can come out fairly quickly where as elephant cannot. the amount of techs elephant needs including devotion, pre-heresy (place holder name for now), and possible bloodline + husbandry if those are available are many to tech into and this is ontop of excluding armor + attack w/e is researched along with ele

we’re looking at like minimum 3-4 techs which would be at least 250-300 food + 800g ontop just to make elephant a bit more powerful while they make 5 spears to shut you down, or 1 monk to convert you if u skip the 600g of pre heresy.

hardly too powerful

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Heresy always seams too dull for me. The game would suffer if this tech would be removed o changed into another thing?

Breaking Heresy into 2 pieces wouldn’t make sense and, incidentally, the addition of Devotion wasn’t great either when mid elos are so dominated by Knights play and the main counter in the 1700-2200 elo range are Monks.

you’ll have to go into more details on that

Heresy is an all-or-nothing tech, and, incidentally, it’s already used (and very strong) in Monk vs Monk wars that drag into Imp. Arena clowns are no strangers to having armies of 15-30 Monks each and at that point it’s a click fest and Heresy a game winner. Iirc Burmese don’t get it and it’s why they are an average Monk civ on Arena in spite of being so attractive to a new eye.

Splitting it into 2 would water down these “civ wins” that I feel have a place in niche games on specialized maps. It would make the game feel like playing Byzantines va Byzantines, sometimes it’s fun that your civ has a tech tree gap that you need to play around.

right now the all or nothing is for all for the monk player, and nothing for the elephant player who spent 1k gold and lose all elephants.

break it into 2, it’ll be much more viable


Elephants need a hard counter because in a world with no Monks Elephant + Skirm/Scorp would be the best comp in the game.

In the end all Elephant civs have good options besides Elephants, those aren’t meant to be a go-to unit.

dont worry about it, even with pre heresy it will still be a hard counter since it can’t even run away from spear

I see this viable if the castle age heresy affected non siege units and the imperial age heresy affected siege units.

Source: trust me bro