Breakpoints, Uhlan Damage nerf explored

I have a theory, and that is that breakpoints are rarely considered when making balance decisions. So, how much of a nerf was -2 Uhlan damage?

Math: Uhlan damage - relevant armor % = damage. Hp divided by damage = number of hits.

Breakpoints on Uhlan hits required to kill various units before (B) and after (A) the nerf:

Hussar B: 9
Hussar A: 10
Pikemen B/A: 4
Strelet B: 2
Strelet A: 3 (big winner, 50% gain)
Recruit B/A: 5
Jungle Bow B/A: 3
Villager B/A: 6
Villager (with GC) B: 7
Villager (with GC) A: 8 (get Great coats!)
Musketeer B/A: 6
LB: B/A: 3
Rod B/A: 7
Vet Skirm B: 4
Vet Skirm A: 5 (+25% hp vs un-upgraded Uhlans)
Cassador B: 3
Cassador A: 4 (+~33%)
Ashi B: 6
Ashi A: 7
Abus Gunner B/A: 4
Janissary B/A: 8
Uhlan B/A: 6
Cossacks B/A: 7
Crossbowmen B/A: 3
Dutch Skirm (II) B/A: 4
Falconet B/A: 6
Culv B/A: 8
Vet Dragoon B/A: 7

The units helped by the nerf vary wildly. Interestingly, some of the biggest winners are light infantry. I do wonder, what was the nerf supposed to change? An unexplored possibility is that this was all about the late game and scaling. What do you think?

10 Likes

What a crazy THEORY. Amiright guys?

4 Likes

This helps russia not get their hordes of strelets instantly deleted by 2 uhlans
Also helps villagers survive for longer with GC.

Late game scaling probably matters less.

But was that the intention behind it or was that simply a side effect (a positive one imo) of just nerfing Uhlans because Germany is op?

It is a direct nerf to Germany aggressive play.

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Given they buffed late game uhlan card by 5% im guessing this change was intentional. Weakens germany significantly vs cav openings and helps russia as you said not get easy rolled.

3 Likes

and it’s not like Uhlans are anywhere to being useless after the nerf, Germans are still strong, but not op.

2 Likes

I’m not saying “Germany’s bad now” nor complaining. I just found the set of units it changes points on to be interesting and was wondering if the new interactions were intentional or a happy accident made from a mindset of “Germany needs a nerf, let’s nerf Uhlans and see how it goes.”

If the change was made with the intention of helping Russia in a bad MU and toning Germany down against Cav starts I think it’s a great nerf that was well executed. However, certain other balance decisions over the years make me wonder if we’re projecting specific intentions onto something that might not have been given much thought.

6 Likes

Small nerfs like these are almost always calculated as such. They may not have considered all the units it did affect, but I’m sure the primary reason are somewhere in that list.

My guess is villagers with GC and Russia. Probably hussars as well, but the difference is smaller. Especially GC which is essentially a nerf across the board for all Germany match ups.

3 Likes

the topic of uhlan breakpoints is as old as ESOC, and 90% of it had to do with cav battles against hussars.

was this the target now who knows since changes are never explained but from the way the numbers worked the hussar change will have the most impact

asking why doesnt really matter in this case

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I still think the winner is GC. It basically gives villagers 3 whole seconds of extra life time against uhlans. That’s pretty huge for 150f

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GC is only 75 food, so an even greater value for that small Investment

Spirit/eastern medicine is 150

Btw: do we have data on the matchups since last patch? I also wonder if the other russian updates (huntsmen, russo-american company, poruchik cost) helped their winrate

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We have the data. Yes. Whether that data is understood or even considered when balance decisions are made is not apparent.

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i can say we have data but its probably not matured (ie not enough games) to make much analysis off of yet; from what i can see nothing really has shifted for most civs this patch but usa. from the civ grid info

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I haven’t checked and am too lazy to… what has shifted for USA?

win rate and play rate by a good deal so far, but i wouldnt say its conculsive just that its noticable. purely subjective take on seeing the trend

Oh and ethopias already low playrate halved

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Play rate is an overlooked metric imo

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Oh well, I gave up my main civs (surely not Lakota) xD

1 Like