Briton is Op, but Longbow is so bad in terms of efficiency

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I mainly play britons and think It is super Op(But lose so many times cuz my brain and hand is handiccc)

anyway… longbow men is iconic units of medieval and It should appear more often than now
but for winning, I should use crows and abalest.

some of new users say longbow is super units, but… it is not true
many of this complaint came from Jan of Arc mission not PvP play(many agree i think)

So powerful longbow is very illusion.

Some of civs are using their UU for best winning strategies.
It is very good for game’s characteristics.
But briton users are studying that “wanna win in competitive games? then use archery only”
Now briton’s Xbos and Longbow have same position.
It means both are overlapped.
and
If we consider castle(Stone 650) and volume(mass) of units
It’s no useful case for training longbowmen except for very late game (After establish market trade)

If we wanna play briton and wanna win?
U should use xbos series.

It looks strange for users who wanna feel historical character of game (Briton should use longbow)
So we have to make some way for showing longbow frequently.
I really wanna use longbow even he has same specification compared to Xbow!

my practice is below

  1. same economical condition but make longbow powerful
    Longbow massive is impossible now (normal RMS)
    so make more powerful them give choice xbow(stable) or longbow(High lisk but powerfull)
    I think yomen give +1 damage, it’s possible
    or Thumb Ring

  2. better economical condition but have same(or under) specification
    give production upgrade like huns, goths etc…

how do you think?
Do you think that longbows are rellay Op units in competitive games?

1 Like
2

i don’t think Britons or longbows are op, both are completely fine.
they don’t need any buffs, but they don’t need any nerfs either.
the reason Britons don’t get thumb ring is due to the extra range they have.

4 Likes
3

You know what is OP?
The pikeman/halberdier bonus buff vs already underused Camels
And yes Xbows in general ore OP

4

i think nerfs are okey. but should make longbow more accessible units for this game’s characteristics. xbow are not suit for briton.

1 Like
5

Xbows are destroying the game right now.

Notice any pattern?

Britons
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Byzantines
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Chinese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Ethiopians
Dark Age → ArcherEatAll Age → CrossbowEatAll Age → ArbalestEatAll Age

Incas
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Italians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Japanese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Malay
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Mayans
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest/Plume Age

Portuguese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Saracens
Dark Age → ArcherEatWall Age → CrossbowEatTC Age → ArbalestEatAll Age

Vietnamese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Vikings
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age

Aztecs
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Eagle Age

Berbers
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Camel Archer Age

Celts
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: CeltEatTC, DE: XbowEatMangonel Age → ArbalestEatSO Age

Cumans
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Paladin Age

Goths
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: T90Wall, DE: Crossbowman Age → Goth Spam Age

Huns
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: CA, DE: Crossbowman Age → Paladin Age

Khmer
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: Knight, DE: Crossbowman Age → Elephant Age

Koreans
Dark Age → HD: Tower, DE: Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Tower Age

Magyars
Dark Age → HD: Scout, DE: Archer Age → HD: Knight, DE: Crossbowman Age → Paladin Age

Malians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Farimba Age

Mongols
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Mangudai Age

Tatars
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → CA/Keshik Age

Persians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin/Crossbowman Age

Burmese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Arambai Age

Franks
Dark Age → HD: Scout, DE: Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin Age

Indians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Camel Age → Imperial Camel Age

Lithuanians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Knight Age → Leitis Age

Slavs
Dark Age → HD: Scout, DE: Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin(=Boyar) Age

Teutons
Dark Age → Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin Age

Turks
Dark Age → Archer Age → Jani Age → OutOfGold Age

Bulgarians
Dark Age → T90Wall Age → Krepost Age → iKonnik Age

Spanish
Dark Age → T90Wall Age → Conq Age

This is why Units need to be balanced.

There are MANY reasons for this, not just Pathing.
There is also the near 0 ping we have nowadays with the Server based system.

1 Like
6

On closed maps like black forest, longbows are definitely the better unit as they’re more population efficient. Also remember that longbows are cheaper gold wise.
I think asking a buff for one of the best UUs when we have other weak ones and giving one of the best civs thumb ring is just ridiculous

6 Likes
7

I think many maps are open maps so need to make them frequently on open map is better

8

Easy solution to your problem: make normal archers first and once you have a castle start making longbows too, as you add castles you will eventually be able to sustain a full longbow army.

2 Likes
9

I think it’s perfectly fine.
If you want easier production -> Archer line
If you can afford it you can go for an even better version of it (they are straight up better as a unit) from the Castle.

It’s not like Mongols where you always have to go for Castles because Mangudai are a lot better than regular cav archers, but I don’t think that’s what you want to have. Both units (archer line and longbows) have their place and can be the better choice, depending on the situation. That’s as good as it gets.

Sidenote: You might no see them that much in pro play (you still do though), because people there are a lot better at punishing greedy plays. On lower levels you can get away with going for longbows (which doesn’t mean to always rush them!) a lot easier.

2 Likes
10

It’s not really about the longbowmen which isn’t good enough but about the fact that you both need castles and in early imp you might prefer to use your castles for treb production. It’s pretty similar for other archer UU civs although Britons probably rely more on trebs than vietnamese or italians, for instance. Also for Britons I’d say it’s quite essential to maintain an archer mass which is why you more often than not prefer xbows/arbs.

To compensate for that longbows have great stats and as was already said here on closed maps they are used quite frequently. So nothing wrong about them, imo. Just because it’s not the default unit when you play Britons doesn’t mean it’s not a good one.

1 Like
11

i think they’re ok, but in closed maps they can swing the game too much, and the LB loses its identity.

in the long run (pipe dream i know) i would wish briton arbs only get +1 extra range, instead of a total of +3, but they can get thumb ring.

the LB then has an identity of a long rannge archer (12 vs 11 range really isnt that much of a difference), and the irrational briton arb blob can become a little more rational and can finally be counterd by onagers instead of almost purely by rams (which still isnt really a counter to someone microing them well enough).

1 Like
12

The reason you don’t really need to make Longbow, Rattan or Plumed is because Crossbows are OP atm. Easy to mass and with micro they kill everything…

1 Like
13

Cross is not OP ^^
Knight is stated from Castle but Xbos are stackted from Feudal

So massive archer -> massive Xbos -> U feel it is OP. ok?