Broke chariots

#1

Chariots are broken and they need to be nerfed. you literally cannot play a game without them
archer chariot is 40 food 70 wood.
scythe chariots 40 food 60 wood.

people just spam them and run them into your base and the only units that can actually keep up with them are horses and camels but those cost ungodly amounts of food and gold
Camels 70food 60 gold
Cav 70food 80 gold

The health that chariots also have make it so you can’t just use towers to keep them out of your base
their speed means you can’t use archers which just so happen to also have the same range as chariot archers but less health???

I’m not going to play this garbage if its a chariot cluster ****

#2

Wood chopping and food are the easiest things to get in this game why the heck would they make chariots so cheap so fast so much health so much projectile resistance. its absurd. its broken

#3

Every game against ‘decent’ players is just a chariot archer spam

#4

Chariots are not overpowered. They are easy enough to counter with cavalry and camels. Cavalry may cost gold, but gold is everywhere in the early game and it’s not any harder to get than wood or food. I haven’t had a single game that would last long enough for gold to run out.

Also, getting chariots out is slow because you have to research wheel first. You can already have cavalry in the enemy base before they can make a single chariot.

#5

Theres a term for non-gold units: trash units

Currently there are not much trash units in game, basic tool age archer, slinger, axemen and with bronze age chariots. Chariots are the better performing trash units, so if you are in late game and you want non-gold units to swarm your enemy chariots are the only ones to allow that.

I think thats the main problem, chariots being fairly good, and only counterable by other chariots or gold costing units, like you guys said camels and stuff.

Trash units should be counterable by other trash units, both sides of the battle should have access to pull this off. In AOE 2, this exists, you have units like halbediers aswell, so you can counter a possible trash unit swarm.

I think AOE:DE needs one more unit, preferably some sort of spear/halberd wielding non-gold barracks unit.

My suggestion: He should be fairly weaker than a gold-costing barracks unit, for example a swordsman. Maybe something like 40 food 35 wood? He has damage multiplier working like a slinger, low damage(2,3 or 4 at most) but dealing high x2 damage to cavalry units. This may even provide some sort of defense againts Yamato bronze cavalry spam.

Btw, slingers fall short in late game, cant really beat up chariots anymore. Whatsup with that? Apperantly they dont get upgrades like rest of the armies do. Just why? Wouldnt it be good to see slingers(a trash unit just like chariot) to have its own use in bronze & iron age?

#6

@qweytr24 said:
Chariots are not overpowered. They are easy enough to counter with cavalry and camels. Cavalry may cost gold, but gold is everywhere in the early game and it’s not any harder to get than wood or food. I haven’t had a single game that would last long enough for gold to run out.

Also, getting chariots out is slow because you have to research wheel first. You can already have cavalry in the enemy base before they can make a single chariot.

I just want to point out Camels and cavalry do not at all counter chariots. You don’t need wheel for camels for example can can get them out on the map early this is an advantage over chariots, but in even resources chariots are still better assuming massed like 20+.

Camels and cavalry will do decent until they have massed chariots. But they are by no means a counter unit. Slingers with the +1 pierce armor do counter chariots though. Unfortunately they are insanely bad vs all other units in the game even composite bowman.

#7

@J0rdian said:

@qweytr24 said:
Chariots are not overpowered. They are easy enough to counter with cavalry and camels. Cavalry may cost gold, but gold is everywhere in the early game and it’s not any harder to get than wood or food. I haven’t had a single game that would last long enough for gold to run out.

Also, getting chariots out is slow because you have to research wheel first. You can already have cavalry in the enemy base before they can make a single chariot.

I just want to point out Camels and cavalry do not at all counter chariots. You don’t need wheel for camels for example can can get them out on the map early this is an advantage over chariots, but in even resources chariots are still better assuming massed like 20+.

Camels and cavalry will do decent until they have massed chariots. But they are by no means a counter unit. Slingers with the +1 pierce armor do counter chariots though. Unfortunately they are insanely bad vs all other units in the game even composite bowman.

It’s true that camels and cavalry only work when the numbers are small. In large numbers chariot archers are perhaps a bit too powerful, but they are not cheap and getting to them takes time, so it’s also partially your own fault if you let your opponent get a critical mass of chariots.

Still, there is a bit of an imbalance there. I think giving 1 pierce armor to stone throwers could make them a more efficient counter to chariot archers.

#8

@Kp_centi said:
Chariots are broken and they need to be nerfed. you literally cannot play a game without them
archer chariot is 40 food 70 wood.
scythe chariots 40 food 60 wood.

people just spam them and run them into your base and the only units that can actually keep up with them are horses and camels but those cost ungodly amounts of food and gold
Camels 70food 60 gold
Cav 70food 80 gold

The health that chariots also have make it so you can’t just use towers to keep them out of your base
their speed means you can’t use archers which just so happen to also have the same range as chariot archers but less health???

I’m not going to play this garbage if its a chariot cluster ****

You can be killed before you have a Chariots

#9

My suggestion is this: once the scythe chariot upgrade is researched, the wood cost would be replaced with gold. Game wise balance and historical touch since those devices were expensive to produce and maintain. :smile:

#10

The most broken unit aren’t even charriots, but slingers. Atm most of the games with decent players are decided in early toolage when you outmass the enemy with slingers. There is no counter for them in toolage and they even kill towers/walls like flies.
The problem with charriots in late bronze or iron age is that they perform basically as good as (heavy) cavalry but cost way less. If you really wanna improve something then we need a way to research additional pierce armor for cavalry to have a decent counter for the charriot archers (and later on horse archers in iron age). Additional pierce armor would also be a good reason to go for cavalry instead of charriots, since they can perform as meatshield for archer fire.

On voobly we had some sort of aoe1 mod where cavalry was affected by the shield techs in storage pit, hich worked really really well. In bronze cavalry was strong enough to deal with pure charriot archer swarms, the charriot player was forced to add monks/hoplites/camels as support and in Iron age you finally had a real counter for horse archers beside catapults. It increases the usage of cavalry counter units, which are barely usable atm since they get dominated so hard by charriot (archers)

#11

@StriateRobin896 said:
My suggestion is this: once the scythe chariot upgrade is researched, the wood cost would be replaced with gold. Game wise balance and historical touch since those devices were expensive to produce and maintain. :smile:

The research cost gold 800.

#12

@StriateRobin896 said:
My suggestion is this: once the scythe chariot upgrade is researched, the wood cost would be replaced with gold. Game wise balance and historical touch since those devices were expensive to produce and maintain. :smile:

So, an expensive late game “super” upgrade that makes the unit significantly worse in the impending very late game trash wars?

#13

Btw can someone explain me why i can’t make any topics, this my 5th post here. I would like to make a topic to ask about balance changes to increase the competitive possiblities.

#14

@“teutonic tanks” said:
Btw can someone explain me why i can’t make any topics, this my 5th post here. I would like to make a topic to ask about balance changes to increase the competitive possiblities.

Read please. https://forums.ageofempires.com/discussion/15139/forum-rank-system/p1?new=1

#15

@Augustusman said:

@“teutonic tanks” said:
Btw can someone explain me why i can’t make any topics, this my 5th post here. I would like to make a topic to ask about balance changes to increase the competitive possiblities.

Read please. https://forums.ageofempires.com/discussion/15139/forum-rank-system/p1?new=1

That’s not the full story, because it says you should be able to post topics after 3 posts, and people are reporting it actually takes 10 posts.

That being said, I think there are several recent topics about asking for changes to the game, that’s kind of a typical post release thing. So in this specific case you can probably find a good place for that post.

#16

@“teutonic tanks” said:
The most broken unit aren’t even charriots, but slingers. Atm most of the games with decent players are decided in early toolage when you outmass the enemy with slingers. There is no counter for them in toolage and they even kill towers/walls like flies.

The problem with charriots in late bronze or iron age is that they perform basically as good as (heavy) cavalry but cost way less. If you really wanna improve something then we need a way to research additional pierce armor for cavalry to have a decent counter for the charriot archers (and later on horse archers in iron age). Additional pierce armor would also be a good reason to go for cavalry instead of charriots, since they can perform as meatshield for archer fire.



On voobly we had some sort of aoe1 mod where cavalry was affected by the shield techs in storage pit, hich worked really really well. In bronze cavalry was strong enough to deal with pure charriot archer swarms, the charriot player was forced to add monks/hoplites/camels as support and in Iron age you finally had a real counter for horse archers beside catapults. It increases the usage of cavalry counter units, which are barely usable atm since they get dominated so hard by charriot (archers)

This sounds interesting actually. I think either this or cavalry starting with 1 pierce armor could also work, although we should be careful to not make them too strong against archers in general. I still think that AoE 1 would benefit greatly from having extra units/upgrades, like an iron age upgrade for camels and a bronze age upgrade for slingers.

#17

The voobly mod experiments even with elite-slingers (got +1 range/attack and 3 pierce armor in comparison to normal slinger) and heavy camels (got like +30 HP, additional attack bonus vs cavavlry Units). Never really made them so i dont know. It’s a nice idea tho.

#18

@Augustusman said:

@StriateRobin896 said:
My suggestion is this: once the scythe chariot upgrade is researched, the wood cost would be replaced with gold. Game wise balance and historical touch since those devices were expensive to produce and maintain. :smile:

The research cost gold 800.

I know, my point was to replace the wood cost of the scythe chariot unit with gold cost in order to balance it :slight_smile:

#19

@Sargon said:

@“teutonic tanks” said:
The most broken unit aren’t even charriots, but slingers. Atm most of the games with decent players are decided in early toolage when you outmass the enemy with slingers. There is no counter for them in toolage and they even kill towers/walls like flies.

The problem with charriots in late bronze or iron age is that they perform basically as good as (heavy) cavalry but cost way less. If you really wanna improve something then we need a way to research additional pierce armor for cavalry to have a decent counter for the charriot archers (and later on horse archers in iron age). Additional pierce armor would also be a good reason to go for cavalry instead of charriots, since they can perform as meatshield for archer fire.



On voobly we had some sort of aoe1 mod where cavalry was affected by the shield techs in storage pit, hich worked really really well. In bronze cavalry was strong enough to deal with pure charriot archer swarms, the charriot player was forced to add monks/hoplites/camels as support and in Iron age you finally had a real counter for horse archers beside catapults. It increases the usage of cavalry counter units, which are barely usable atm since they get dominated so hard by charriot (archers)

This sounds interesting actually. I think either this or cavalry starting with 1 pierce armor could also work, although we should be careful to not make them too strong against archers in general. I still think that AoE 1 would benefit greatly from having extra units/upgrades, like an iron age upgrade for camels and a bronze age upgrade for slingers.

I would add also an upgrade to axemen in terms of better health, attack and armor as well as bronze age look for them with some visual armor, better axe ( bronze one ) as well as option for recruiting different mid game unit like javelin man or spearmen

#20

@StriateRobin896 said:

@Augustusman said:

@StriateRobin896 said:
My suggestion is this: once the scythe chariot upgrade is researched, the wood cost would be replaced with gold. Game wise balance and historical touch since those devices were expensive to produce and maintain. :smile:

The research cost gold 800.

I know, my point was to replace the wood cost of the scythe chariot unit with gold cost in order to balance it :slight_smile:

Think in this way: spam most chariots in Bronze Age, and then get upgrade in Iron Age. Does your idea make any difference?
or
training lots of chariots in many Stables / Archery Range (the training cost is paid), then click upgrade. Does your idea make any difference?

Your argument is incomplete to mitigate the above two problems… and it is also a very weird idea in RTS world… (who will ever notice this kind of sudden resource change if the cost involved 2 resources??? I know AoE3 has some cards to change type of resource cost of unit, but mostly those units are have cost in single resource, and at least the change is spontaneous, i.e. the player know what he is doing)