while they are funny to use for the memes as portugal by popping 5 to surprise an enemy or hiding them among other units, they do not perform for their costs
1k gold plus age 3 shipment for 5 540 hp no ranged resist, 58 attack with 2 aoe, and 4.5 speed. it needs more and feels meme tier.
increase hp to 800, damage to 60 and speed to 5.5 to justify their price. that’s still 650 less hp+40% less ranged resistance, and 2 less speed than a mameluke.
otherwise reduce their pop cost to 3 and gold cost to 250, and increase 5 ronin shipment to 8.
meanwhile Hatamoto should have a totally different model with awesome face masks and unique voicelines/animation. reusing the ronin feels lazy.
further comparison to the most viable melee infantry merc shipment, the swiss.
swiss pike shipment sends 12 325 hp swiss pikes, 5 speed, 110 damage vs cav. thats a total 1200 hp difference and faster move speed, with more overkill potential from skirms and cannons.
just the better shipment in every way, and something that could actually see use if it was added to the ports.
at 540 hp 4 pop, they have the least hp per pop of any mercenary melee infantry by at least 20 hp per pop, and the only mercenary melee infantry with less hp per pop than base musketeers.
I have fond memories of games where my opponent tries to come into my base with a full army of cav, not noticing the three ronin hiding amongst my small army of state militia and regulars.
not sure what bonuses ronin have with japan, aside from 7% damage from consulate. pavilion should almost always be on ranged damage, it has for more value and damage potential.
if you are talking about hatamoto, they are quite garbage. they are easily sniped and move too slow while draining all your export.
you can have 12 consulate musketeers for cheaper than 3 hatamoto, or 6 musketeers and 8 ruyters.
you can also get a full brigade with artillery for the cost of 8 hatamoto.
all of which are ranged, deal more damage, and have more hp than the hatamoto.
1- I wasnt talking about Hatamotos, but they dont need any buff neither.
2- GP can be switched beetween modes as Community plaza do and Speed bonus are good too, obviously its not needed everytime on speed, I repeat it can change from 1 bonus to another.
Hatamoto Samurai and Ronin are basically the same unit, i mean, the Hatamoto Samurai is a Ronin that shadowtechs into imperial for 2.1 times the stats as almost every other consulate unit, plus, the other bonuses from japan.
Because I see a lot of people getting these mixed up, I just wanna clarify that Hatamoto Samurai and Ronin as different units. Best way to see it is that when you ship the 15 ronin card in Age IV with Japan, you just get Ronin and not Hatamoto. So:
Ronin: Units that various civs can have access to through shipments and Saloon.
Hatamoto: Japan exclusive unit trained only from the Japan Isolationism in the consulate.
I looked at the stats again for ronin as well as their costs, and also looked at the upgrades japan can offer them. by that metric these units are terrible in every way when compared to their other options.
but maybe they have value that cant be explained through numbers and so I went and watched several high level Japanese games if they ever used ronin shipments or made hatamoto over other consulate units, and they where nowhere to be seen. I have legitimately seen more flail elephant, healer and revolution play in higher elo than these two units.
however I don’t believe my experiences always match those of other players, or that we should only balance for higher levels of play.
and reading these posts I have come realize why a lot of average skilled players are having trouble with these units.
for the average player, slow expensive infantry units with low hp per pop such as grenadiers, doppels, macemen and samurai are terrifying when they have aoe and high siege damage.
maybe because its hard to kite and spread units out, or that stopping an opponent before they can get a big enough mass/eco to afford them takes too much initiative. maybe scouting and building counter units for these units is more difficult than with others as they punish the wrong unit types harder. maybe its something else entirely else.
but its become clear these unit types are causing a lot of pain for a significant portion of our player base, and that’s not acceptable.
To reduce the amount of useless units in the game as well as reduce the suffering they cause to the average skilled player, I instead implore the devs to stop making these types of units. players clearly do not enjoy using them or facing against them at any level of play.
there are many unit types that are clearly enjoyed by a majority of the player base, and these should be the focus going forward. why make a unit type that causes pain for one section of the player base and is considered useless for another when you can make one that is loved by both.