Burgundians Flemish revolution tech - turn spearman-line to Flemish Militia

I think this option is better than the current ‘click for gg’ technology where you will only train villagers after researching the tech before a gg is called.

This option would allow you to train new Flemish militia earlier from TC’s as you’d be set with your villager production

It would make interesting gameplay where opponents will see a Burgundian player with a lot of spears/pikes/halbs on the field, the flemish upgrade might be a threat during imperial at any given time

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I prefer bagi’s idea of turning xbows into HC.

Turning spears into flems is like a one off imperial skirm type upgrade. Aka its not really adding anything new. You have halbs. Click tech now you have better halbs. But only some of them.

So doesn’t really help where burg is weak and doesn’t give them another option besides melee cav

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this is a good idea.

Leave villagers alone and turn pikes to flemish militia

So you become weaker vs Heavy cav and stronger vs everything else…

Could make sense to replace milita line also.

Meaning no more militia and no more pikes only Flemish club/spear holders.

You could boost their stats a bit too

Thats cool, haven’t seen that thread I’ll have to check that out

I really think they should just give flemish access from Imperial age (Like Italian condos)

As long as it is not over the top conversion with all villagers, feels like another phase of OP to fall in love with it then nerf :slight_smile:

My pet hate right now is seeing burg hussars being weaker than bloodlines light cav. A wanna be hussar :laughing:

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Doesnt sound bad.
The “turning xbows into hand cannons” also sounds interesting, however whats happening to the unit the “flemish militia” then? will it just disappear from the game?
I made suggestions early on in this thread as well:

From my suggestions I honestly prefer the one, unlocking flemish militia as a unit to create and in addition giving villagers bonus damage vs cavalry, protecting you quite effectively from smaller scale raids. The Flemish militia is a super strong unit as it is. Basically having champions and halbs, without having to upgrade either of them. The technology can become cheaper or have shorter research time, but a technology to JUST unlock them is good enough in my book. Add the villager bonus to it and I personally think the tech is good enough.

They would be available for creation in the town center either from the start of the Imperial Age or from the moment the new unique tech is researched. It wouldn’t be a bad thing per se, a bunch of buildings you weren’t using much anymore can now be used to train infantry, where you probably didn’t have a lot of barracks yet because you were ignoring infantry as you’re a cavalry civ. It doesn’t however really feel like a revolution. Maybe if you can get to a Goth like spam of them.

Another option would be to just have the Flemish Revolution tech create a bunch of Flemish Militia in one go, say 7 for each town center up to a maximum of 5 town centers. That would feel a bit more like a proper citizen uprising. I honestly don’t know why that tech went to the Sicilians. I feel like it’s too late now though. It’s already the Sicilian thing, so the Burgundians shouldn’t get that.


What is the point of making a military unit in to another unit?its the same as a normal unit upgrade.

You know what would be kind of funny? If Flemish Militia was a straight up upgrade to Villager. They can still do everything a Villager can, but now while armed and dangerous. Sick of Hussar raids? Click Flemish Revolution, every farmer is infantry now. Raid that with your puny trash cavalry.


Hey, I said it would be fun, not that it would be balanced. I never used the word balanced.

…Although I guess if you use something like Spearman stats without the bonus damage (but affected by Blacksmith upgrades) they’re not really worse than Incan villagers…

Flemish Militia is almost clearly a straight upgrade to the Pike line. A halb has a base total damage vs cavalry of 38 (32+6) and the Flemish militia has a base total damage of 24 (12+12) but the Flemish Militia attacks 50% faster (effectively doing 36 damage every 3 seconds compared to the Halb’s 38 damage every 3 seconds) and has more HP/armor. It is only barely weaker than a Halb against cavalry and it does so much better against everything else that you really would rather just have Flemish militia even against a cavalry-heavy composition.

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actually flemish militia (without any micro) is almost 2x more effective vs paladin in equal numbers, because of the better rof and extra armor an hp

I mean, let’s be really clear here, it’s a combination of having a much higher rate of fire and slightly more HP meaning getting several extra shots in compared to a Halb. With equal numbers, both die, but having the extra HP and armor means sticking around longer and getting extra hits in. They do roughly the same effective DPS until the halb falls over. The Halb simply falls over quicker. That means in larger numbers (where killing the enemy doesn’t stop the damage) the Halb and Flemish will function nearly identically against cav.

But in a mixed fight against cav and some ranged unit behind it the longer survival could help the Flemish Militia, letting it mix in while fighting and hit a few Archers before dying.


Indeed, which is why I said it was

I’m just trying to be very clear about the specifics. In the vast plurality of cases it’s better than a halb, but with costing gold that should be the case before even considering the loss of eco.

No, because the spearmen line have a good speed to keep chasing the enemy cavs, so turning it into the slow Flemish militia is not a good option, just make the tech be able to make Flemish militia training at barracks and remove turning all vills to Flemish militia.

Another option to make the Flemish militia like Sicilians crusade (at first time), which make the TCs produce 10 Flemish miltia on every TC at once (5 TCs max)

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That sounds extremely boring to me, like all the Lords of the West UTs. The only one-use technology, Paper Money was more than enough, then added the stupid Cuman Mercenaries technology, which is historically accurate, but boring and now we have 6 boring one-use techs.

Yeah in general i totally agree with you, well if you ask me personally i even suggest to remove both of these 2 new civs and redesign them again :joy::joy::joy:…i really hate the one use UT and want to exchange them all, this including (Cumans UT, Vietnamese UT, Sicilians and Burgundians)

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These civs are a joke in every aspect of the game.

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